Moonsword and Grimloq: I'm not referring to you, since both of you have joined projects since you entered the community ... (wich is good)


What the f### is with all the noobe joining the community? They have the IQ of the Halo forumites... (halomods.com for an example)... I mean look at this, in the last week, we probably got 10-15 members. in that same time, there have been NO additions to ANY hosted projects. Old members, most are already on projects, and those that aren't, they're acceptable. But people less then a year of membership, (including Wooly Wool) jump out to start their own huge project. Sandwich jsut made my day when i checked the HLP request thread immediately before starting this thread:

Sandwich, from the HLP Request Thread VII wrote: It's not purely for space restrictions that we're not accepting new projects - it's because of the lack of community "talent", if you will. It's our way of encouraging new FREDders, modelers, and the like to join existing projects before starting yet another project that won't get completed. // Sandwich

I'm a member of 1 project there, the SWC, and 1 here, FSCZ. Hhere are people who are part of 7. Regardless of how many things you can do at once, they are ptuuing something back into the community. It isn't the avatar that matters, its doing your job. I signed on as webmaster for the SWC, and while i do that, I took on testing, modeling, converting, and keeping the SWC running (not single handedly of course...) ...
but now, FSCZ, wich is the newest version of Fleetwars++, wich was Fleetwars, wich was nodewars, wich was squadwars, can be traced back since the BEGINNING of FS1 multiplayer. Now, we have 2 testers, and 4 managers. It takes the constant effort of 3 managers to come up with the rules, and then to keep track of the hopefully dozens of teams who will sign up. We've gotten a lot of PM's and stuff, that LOTS of people are lookng forward to running their fleets, and dominating the galaxy. Whoopdie-f#####g-doo. They're never going to be able to play, unless the FSCZ gets some f#####g testers. You can't test large-scale multiplayer with 2 people... (No, this isn't a 'make the reader feel guilty and offer help they know they can never provide' this is just stating my opinion.)

Now, I never expected a seasoned member to sign up, since most of them already have projects on their plate. Hell, I have AHTW, but as long as I've committed my time to other people, I'm going to give them what i promise. 90% of the seasoned members are like this... But then, new people join after getting HotU or ebay versions fo FS2, and within a month, they have a campaign plotted, and ask for help. For some reason, when THEY ask for help, with THEIR caomaign, you usually get the warnngs from older people, that it will die, but inevitably, some other noob or 2 will join...

These people are everywhere too...

keitotheworld,
Swamp_Thing,
InfernoGod,
Tin Can...

The list goes on.

I was against the origonal Ban-hosting-requests-on-HLP, but now I can see why. I am planning on writing an article for HLP about this, and make n00bs realize, that when they say that there campaign will live, thats one more that will die. And when the hosted one dies, might as well dig a grave for 2, cause that new one's about to die anyway...

I'am only in one project (MT) soon 2 actually (there I'am about month)
then there mighty be future project where I'am staffer Can't confirm that...Yet (Top secret info) After MT is done then maybe i can say more... who knows.....

One thing I don't understant why all new peoplws want join in lot projects then they vanish or are Really slow in Progress...


as for me I would like help everyone but I'am not fredder only Beta tester
(other MT Staff mempers says I'am really really good in that tho)

Hmmm...The problem, Hippo, is that we need players as well as modders, and not everyone that joins the community should feel obligated to take part as a campaign staffer simply because everyone else is. Also, look at Blaise Russel and (to a lesser extent a newbie I suppose) Topace - both have released campaigns despite neither being heavily involved in other projects. You're generalizing a bit too much methinks.

That said, I would like to see more newbies joining campaigns, or at least not starting their own. Despite the above successes, the failure rate is still dizzying, and it often ties potentially talented FREDders/Modders into a dead end project with little interaction with more experienced members who could nurture what talent they might be showing.

Thing is, TopAce and Blaise Russel both work on other camaigns as well... Blaise is part of TVWP IIRC, and TopAce is part of the SWC... Both have put effort back into the community, WHILE working on their own campaigns...

I don't think EVERYONE should be on a project, because then we would be flooded by people... BW: you remember the list of people that were on the SWC at one point... 29 of them... We had to cut it to about 17, because we were giving people the BOTD, and letting them join, just to do nothing.

We have people coming in who have great modeling talent, and soforth... But we don't need them to start NEW campaigns, because it doesn't help the others... People should learn to help others first, before asking for help themselves...

THis is incredible! I think I just won the "Rant yourself a Staff" contest! 3 replies in a few hours


EDIT: woo! 700!

Well, Swamp Thing is in TVWP and is quite a good little modeller, even if he has a nasty habit of using Booleans as a preference, but to each their own

Tin Can is....well..... Tin Can, he seems to have convinced himself that everyone hates him, whilst not realising that his own 'You all hate me' comments are just begging for the reply 'Yes, actually we do', especially in HLP. He's on TVWP as well, but on the verge of either leaving or getting booted out.

He's actually quite good at modding FPS games, but he's not a team player

Ah, but you signed on Swamp_Thing after the 'Rant-Yourself-A-Staff' contest...

Agree with you mostly there Hippo - currently working with two projects total (MG and FSCZ) and its a hell of a job on both.

We need testers

Well, at least MG is moving a bit now (no, im not telling anything else )
FSCZ aint dying.......even if I have to drag its lifeless corpse from the bottom of the ocean, through every forum in HLP, through SSC if need be and even through hell; it wont die! Tis been outstanding work for so long! It has to be completed!!

/rant

Well you may have noticed my opinion on the matter from the big post.

Every newbie wants to make their own campaign often in part cause they don't think the big projects will hire them. So they go off and make a few missions of their own and while making these demo missions they get an idea for a campaign and then we've lost them. Once the idea of making their own campaign has formed and they've made a couple of missions there is no way you can get them to completely give it up. I know what I'm talking about cause that's almost exactly what happened with TMA.

This rant actually gave me an idea. Maybe we should make a newbie campaign specifically for the new guys to cut their teeth on?

What we do is come up with a simple campaign plotline. We don't want anything in it that is too challenging to FRED. We get some of the better FREDders to overlook the project and we basically let the newbies cut their teeth on these missions rather than rushing off to do their own campaign.

The benifits are actually quite good (not just for the newbies either).

1. Since there are 7-8 newbie and potential newbie FREDders in the community at any time this sucks them up and gets them interested in a campaign that can actually be finished rather than letting them wonder off and work on their own.

2. The Blaise Russell's of the community will probably still work on their own stuff when they join up but the ones who are newbish are more likely to join up with this (Especially if the more advanced FREDders help a lot).

3. This gets everyone talking about FRED again. I miss the FRED forum on the VBB. No one on HLP ever seems to ask FRED questions and as a result FRED is the invisble face of modding. Something like this might help FRED seem interesting again and stop people wondering off to other areas of modding.

4. With luck we might be able to churn out some professional FREDders from this. And having a good FREDder who feels personally indebted to you and happy with your style means that they are more likely to help out your campaign

Now I'm talking about FRED mostly here but there is no reason that newbie modellers etc. can't be involved in this. Now the thing is we shouldn't be too worried if the completed campaign isn't great cause we're making it as a learning experience not as an attempt to make a serious campaign.

That's a workable Idea, but we need a face to run it, preferably a new face. Just someone who comes up and posts the:

"I want newbies only! We'll prove the new guys can make stuff just as good as the vets!"

but at the same time, someone who is willing to stick to the predefined storyline, not try to add dozens of new mods and basically be our puppet. Hmmm.

I was thinking more along the lines of running it myself or having another experienced FREDder running it. That way we can keep it from getting out of hand.

That said the idea of having someone say newbies can do as good a job as vets isa good way of pitching it The day to day running could easily be turned over to one of the newbies once everything was running

Of course I could just log in to HLP under and alt-nick

karajorma wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of running it myself or having another experienced FREDder running it. That way we can keep it from getting out of hand.

That said the idea of having someone say newbies can do as good a job as vets isa good way of pitching it The day to day running could easily be turned over to one of the newbies once everything was running

Of course I could just log in to HLP under and alt-nick

ooo....never knew you were the secret-agent type
sounds like a good plan though. If you need help, my PM box is over at HLP and here, and is empty

Thanks for the support Singh. I'll make a posting ove on HLP and see what people think

Damn double posting!

Nice idea