Actually if I'm being brutally honest I'm not at all surprised you got banned ngtm1r. Maybe the others are being too polite to say it had I been made admin just before the choice was made I'd probably have done the same thing.

Fact is that I've noticed over the last few weeks that every time BD is an arse on the forums you've had a go at him. Now while you can say that was justified in that you're responding to the fact that he's being an arse (which is pretty much true) the fact remains that the admins had let him be an arse and they simply saw you being an arse too.

I doubt if I were an admin I would have let it run as long as it did (You'd have got a warning and him a banning weeks ago) but seeing as they did let it go on I'm hardly surprised that when they finally acted that they gave you a ban too.


The lesson to take away from this is that despite MAIA's claims I think I hit the nail on the head on the GW spoiler discussion thread about how admins run a forum. And basically they were sick of you and BD sniping at each other. Why they didn't get sick earlier is beyond me.

Banningness at hlp is too lax. When the bastion had problematic people (southernpried) they were ip banned, and it was a much happier place.

karajorma wrote: Fact is that I've noticed over the last few weeks that every time BD is an arse on the forums you've had a go at him.

That would be difficult, as the vast majority of the time he's done so I've gotten there after the thread has been locked/left the thread after he entered/been asleep while anything interesting was going on.

Basically kara, that doesn't hold water because I haven't been there to do what you claim I did. I can also cite several occasions where he's made an ass of himself and I have refrained from commenting, just off the top of my head.

I will grant that my last few disagreements with BD have been noteworthy in scale and general viewership, but you're making an unsupportable claim.

Now, had you made that argument in regards to Kazan, you might have been right.

ngtm1r wrote:That would be difficult, as the vast majority of the time he's done so I've gotten there after the thread has been locked/left the thread after he entered/been asleep while anything interesting was going on.

Basically kara, that doesn't hold water because I haven't been there to do what you claim I did. I can also cite several occasions where he's made an ass of himself and I have refrained from commenting, just off the top of my head.

I will grant that my last few disagreements with BD have been noteworthy in scale and general viewership, but you're making an unsupportable claim.

The problem with biting your tongue most of the time is no one notices you do it. They only notice when you don't.

If you want to argue about how you've mostly been a good boy or rant on about why you suspect ulterior motives from the admins I'm not going to stop you. My post was simply meant to point out why you did get banned. If you simply want to turn that into an argument rather than an attempt to point out what happened I'm not even going to bother to reply any further on the matter.

I'll just snigger behind my hand when you learn nothing from the experience and get yourself banned again.

Well, in typical HLP fashion, Goober and Fury have derailed the discussion and now nothing will get done.

Hooray for such adept leadership. disgust

I suppose part of the problem is that the Admin cannot be seen to show favouritism. I bet if you asked any one of the Mods they would say they had nothing whatsoever against you, as such, but if they had just banned BD and An0n, for example, and left Kazan and Youself able to post, then you can be pretty sure someone would have cried foul.

That's why I try to keep my rants in here, I'm glad Hunter gave me somewhere to scream phrases like 'BlackDove is a F*cking Asshat!' without risking getting monkeyed or banned.

I will admit, it HAD got to the stage on HLP where I was afraid to state my opinion, and I don't just mean on Politics or Religion, but even in the gaming threads because if I got so much as one word wrong, or possibly misinterpreted, someone would leap on it and start being sarcastic, and yes, the worst, but not only, offenders were Zylon and BD, who tag-team flamebait.

I don't want to go onto a Forum where I have to defend my every opinion, at least not in the style of debate that seemed to be favourite over there, which tended to end up sounding like a playground argument. I always try to respect other peoples point of view, sometimes I go over the top with it, and I'll even admit I'm wrong when I am, as long as people respect that being wrong doesn't make you some kind of 'lesser being', it just makes you human.

Borkify doublepostage!

karajorma wrote: The problem with biting your tongue most of the time is no one notices you do it. They only notice when you don't.

The problem with that is, as I've already observed, is I haven't bit my tongue most of the time, there's simply been no opportunity to say anything. Though I grant I have bit my tongue; some of BD's posts in Grognards and GenFS of late come to mind. Most recent would have been his comments on the support forum.

The other problem of your post is that it also absolves of responsiblity. "It's just human nature." Yes, it is. And yes, you are supposed to do better than "just human nature" when we give you authority. That did not happen.

EDIT: I also have to point out you seem to be laboring under the misconception (or perhaps delusion...I would have thought it was clear from my posts) that I don't know why I was banned. I know why; my second post ought to make that clear. I think it was a considerable overreaction when the minor part I played in the events that triggered mass banning is understood, but I understand why it happened. Give me a little credit for intelligence.

Or better yet give me credit for being able to read. Since it said "baiting BlackDove" when I tried to log in yesterday.

ngtm1r wrote:The other problem of your post is that it also absolves of responsiblity. "It's just human nature." Yes, it is. And yes, you are supposed to do better than "just human nature" when we give you authority. That did not happen.

And where is your responsibility for being an arse repeatedly on HLP? You got away with it several times when you should have been banned. This time you did something more minor than the last few times and didn't.

Forums do not run trials based on the offense and only the offense. They do take past history into account. And your recent history was not good. So you got banned.

If you want to talk about responsibility how about remembering that you knew it wasn't acceptable behaviour every time you got into it with BD and did it anyway.

Sure the moderation on HLP needs work but if your solution was to pour petrol on the fire you've got no one to blame but yourself if you got burnt. So instead of complaining about how your sentence was unfair you should take responsibility for what you did, take your lumps and come back to HLP when they let you back in with a different attitude to BD regardless of how big a twat you think he is.

I can't imagine getting this upset over a banning, course I've never been banned from HLP o.O

Thought this is the best place to talk about it!

To be honest, Hunters right in General Chat, but I felt a need to vent, and this seemed like the right place to do it without causing a disruption, but in hindsight, I really wish I hadn't now.

I've already come to the conclusion that nothing is going to change. The thread in Grognards going from a legitimate discussion into a conversation about the main page content proves to me that the administration is happy to be their little circle of elites, and dont want change.

If it gets bad like it did, I'll just call it quits. Lord knows I'd have more time to do productive things if I werent there...

karajorma wrote: And where is your responsibility for being an arse repeatedly on HLP? You got away with it several times when you should have been banned. This time you did something more minor than the last few times and didn't.

If you can cite when and where I've actually done so; preferably with quotes since I can't see it at the moment, then I'll agree with you.

But somehow I think you'll find that I haven't commited a bannable offense, full stop. I've made a serious effort not to. Monkeying, certainly. But not bannable.

Also just to be an arse about it, where's yours in your debates with Trashman? We should all have been banned long ago by that logic.

karajorma wrote: Forums do not run trials based on the offense and only the offense. They do take past history into account. And your recent history was not good. So you got banned.

I think I refuted that in my last post, yes? And the previous? My recent history was much better then you want to portray it as. Yes, it was by omission of actions rather than commission of them, but you know what, that's supposed to be taken into account regardless.

karajorma wrote: If you want to talk about responsibility how about remembering that you knew it wasn't acceptable behaviour every time you got into it with BD and did it anyway.

Offhand, I can only recall seriously getting into it twice with BD, which kinda puts a crimp in your "OMGZ it's a personal vendetta!" theory. Once over the favorite character thread and once regarding his doing jack s### for any of the projects he's a part of for months.

Noteworthy that in both cases I attacked his behavior/argument rather than the man himself, yes?

Hell, at this point I'm fairly sure that aside from those, and the thread that sparked our discussion here, I've only even directly commented on the man on HLP two or three times at most. Five-six instances doesn't make for much of a sniping match, does it?

While we're on the subject I can also recall a thread where he directly insulted me ("Posting s### like this is why everyone thinks you're an idiot" or words to that effect) and I did not bother responding.

Your ideas of personal vendetta and sniping match seem to be deeply skewed. Yes, I think he's ass, and yes, I'm not afraid to say it to his face. That doesn't make for a personal vendetta or a sniping match. I think perhaps the fact that you read this particular forum has clouded your vision on the subject. (And maybe Goob's as well?) BlackDove comes up often here, and I freely give my opinion on the depths of his social ineptitude and moral depravity in each case.

But that does not a sniping match on HLP make. If we eliminated this forum's contents from the consideration of my opinion of Blackdove it's quite likely I wouldn't particularly stand out from most of the inhabitants of the recently renamed Flamefest forum. Flip has, as you put it, gotten into it with BlackDove recently. That event occurred in the same thread that originally sparked this thread. So have others on other occasions. Are they, too, to be banned? Is it a sniping match?

karajorma wrote: Sure the moderation on HLP needs work but if your solution was to pour petrol on the fire you've got no one to blame but yourself if you got burnt.

Never was, and never has been. I was frankly much more pleased with HLP's moderation before this event then I am now, so this is really a non sequitor; does not follow.

karajorma wrote: So instead of complaining about how your sentence was unfair you should take responsibility for what you did

I already have. I freely admit it, do I not? However, responsiblity for what I did and the responsiblity I was assigned for it do not match. Therein lies the problem. You might have had a point if I was wrong, mind you. But you don't in reality.

karajorma wrote: different attitude to BD regardless of how big a twat you think he is.

And there is that bias again, that fog that came from here. You would not believe that but for my actions here, not there.

Regardless, I'll also point out the basic fallacy of this argument. Nowhere in the forum guidelines does it say I don't have to treat him as if he's twat. Politely, perhaps. But that is not the same thing.

karajorma wrote:The lesson to take away from this is that despite MAIA's claims I think I hit the nail on the head on the GW spoiler discussion thread about how admins run a forum.

How is this? I'm curious.

And basically they were sick of you and BD sniping at each other. Why they didn't get sick earlier is beyond me.

Groupthink. None of the other admins were acting. And ngtm1r, you and BD have gotten in some pretty acrimonious debates before -- several times. I suppose this is the cumulative reaction. You'll notice, however, that I didn't ban you for as long as BD. (And incidentally, Kalfireth is lobbying to increase BD's ban even more.)

karajorma wrote:Forums do not run trials based on the offense and only the offense. They do take past history into account. And your recent history was not good. So you got banned.

Precisely.

Taristin wrote:I've already come to the conclusion that nothing is going to change. The thread in Grognards going from a legitimate discussion into a conversation about the main page content proves to me that the administration is happy to be their little circle of elites, and dont want change.

All it proves is that threads tend to change subjects very quickly.

My honest opinion is that Fury is just being difficult about this. He's upset about the current situation but he's declared himself too indifferent to take any action.

I do agree that the petty bickering shouldn't have happened, so I've split out the offending posts.

Goober5000 wrote:

Taristin wrote:I've already come to the conclusion that nothing is going to change. The thread in Grognards going from a legitimate discussion into a conversation about the main page content proves to me that the administration is happy to be their little circle of elites, and dont want change.

All it proves is that threads tend to change subjects very quickly.

My honest opinion is that Fury is just being difficult about this. He's upset about the current situation but he's declared himself too indifferent to take any action.

I dont buy that. The thread went on for nearly 2 full pages on the complaints of the community, and as soon as Fury shows up, the subject is immediately changed, and our voice ignored.

And if he's being difficult, force an action out of him. He isnt HLP. We are.[/i]