Eh, people are generally bad. If nobody's holding you accountable for your actions, you'll get away with whatever you can. The degree of accountability varies from person to person, but it's universal.

See, there where we differ, I was brought up to believe that the only people you're ever really accountable to are yourself and God. If, after consideration, you have second thoughts about an action or inaction, thinking how it might have turned out better if you had done it the other way, you are generally a good person. Now, humans are a strange species, we have the potential for almost infinite kindness and also, we have the potential for almost infinite evil. I believe left to their own devices most people end up doing much more good than evil and that only a select few, either misled or sociopathic are capable of much evil.

When you do something, let's say build a house, do you build it just so it's good enough to keep the rain and snow off you while you live in it and the next person and the one after that be damned? I would build the house to stand as long as possible and keep from having to have major remodelling done because of structural faults.

I take the long view in almost everything, it's one of many frustrating personality traits that keeps me from having any friends. I keep trying to explain why something may look and even be good now and in the near future, but what about 10 years from now? 15? 50? It tends to chase people off. Anyway...

Uh... not sure where that went.

I was trying to hint at the Christian worldview without actually bringing it up. Sinful nature and all that.

Take the internet as an illustration. There are no practical limits on what a person can upload or download, and there is also virtual anonymity - both of which allow a huge potential for "good" or "bad" use. Yet I'd be willing to bet that the Internet is used far more for bad than for good.

(/me hopes that this can be a flame-free discussion)

Granted, man is by nature an impefect creation, sinful yes, but also capable of redemption and great goodness within his sinfilled life. I won't even try to go any further with that except to say that on a purely human level, most people tend toward the good over the evil.

Goober5000 wrote:I was trying to hint at the Christian worldview without actually bringing it up. Sinful nature and all that.

Taking an atheistic worldview I'd have to agree with you somewhat there.

Natural selection will always favour individuals who do things in favour of their own genetic line. You'll not see true altruism in animals cause wasting time and energy on something that doesn't have your genes (or isn't even of your species) doesn't help you in the long run.

Humans of course can rise above this and choose to act in altruistic manner. We can be good but we have to make the decsion to ignore the selfish pre-programming we already have.

Sadly I don't believe that the majority of people bother most of the time. Basically people are selfish and self-obsessed the majority of the time. We don't do bad things because we're scared of the concequences (in this life or for some people the next one) rather than out of some basic goodness.

Grimloq wrote:i caught a LOT of flak from hippo the other day about it

Yeah... I was in a really bad mood that day...

Grimloq wrote:can somebody elaborate, pleez? this isnt making alot of sence...

i got this: a britain civillian was captured in irag and killed?

i dont mean to be disrespectul or that kinda stuff, but id like to point out that if this had been a normal murder in country, this wouldnt have been a big deal probably... (unless hes famous, or somehitng)

and liberator, good point. although, i hate most americans. ive met few i liked. (i AM american, BTW, so i know what im saying. i caught a LOT of flak from hippo the other day about it ) most of them seem to be corrupt, stupid, impracical, or some other waste of the planets dwindling resource supply...

id better stop... ill get ranting in a minute

It's worth pointing out that 'bog-standard' murders are still newsworthy in the UK. A beheading would be front page news for several days.

But I think the main shock is largely because the British troops have had very little trouble compared to the Americans in Iraq - there has been some problems in Basra recently, but nothing compared to the likes of Falluja or Sadr City. Most UK troops still patrol with berets instead of helmets AFAIK.

Plus, this is the first time it's happened to a British citizen, and this is a country which has had a vociferous anti-war movement before/during/after the war.

So it's a watershed in many ways.

NB: I can only remember about 4-5 British troops being killed since the war 'ended'. It's probably more, but nowehere near being the seemingly daily basis of the America troops.
NB2: And yes, I realise Basra is regarded as the most likely city/region to be peaceful with regards to the troops

Grimloq wrote:can somebody elaborate, pleez? this isnt making alot of sence...

i got this: a britain civillian was captured in irag and killed?

i dont mean to be disrespectul or that kinda stuff, but id like to point out that if this had been a normal murder in country, this wouldnt have been a big deal probably... (unless hes famous, or somehitng)

Holy Crap - I didn't even see that.

Seriously, you know your country is ****ed up when murder isn't a newsworthy/big deal.

Black Wolf wrote:Seriously, you know your country is ****ed up when murder isn't a newsworthy/big deal.

im not kidding when i say it will usually get about 10-15 minutes of news time if it happens. americans are corrupt, more so than any other country. i have somehting like evidence to that fact, but meh.
THATS why i dont like americans. i dont even like HUMANS anymore...

hold on...

[edit] lol, holy crap... now that i think about it, im more like a vasudan than anything else. 'cept that i only will really take care of myself. im, uh, something of an aethiest (no flames, please. we dont like em...) so i dont really 'beleive' in any sort of final reward...

and, the american accent is SO BORING!!!

Um. Yes. Get a life?

should have seen that coming...