TM ist teh fucktardenfuhrer!

I wasn't going to post further on the matter but this is just too good to let drop.

Believe it or not he's actually using Trashmanverse tables to test things out! Tables which improve the Orion and degrade the Sathanas. And this is while I was using the retail tables to be certain I wasn't skewing the result due to something in the FS2_Open ones.



Words fail me.

have you confronted him yet ?

Yotz!


Keep defeating him and those who support the idea of orion > sathanas.

I don't really want to poke my nose into that thread since it's not a serious test, so I'll only post here:

Just out of shear curiosity, I fredded up my own test of this, giving the sath TI's gunship AI to ensure it would try to point at the orion.
Though the outcome was a given, I was wondering how well the sath would fare, and how difficulty setting affected things.
I gave the orion some big advantages too - SEXPed in repeating firebeam commands based on the beams firewait values in the tables for every beam turret on the orion, gave each turret and the whole ship general AI, positioned it so the sath always turned in the longer direction round to face it, and tried both really close range combat and more normal ranges.

The best the Orion managed was on very easy in close range; it lasted 3 minutes and took the sath down to 60% - primarily because the sath did nearly 3 360° turns before it actually bothered to fire. (I think it was trying to perform a strafing run actually)

In just about every other case (around 20 in all) the orion lasted just over a minute, and took the sath down to around 86%. On the two lowest difficulties it tended towards 2 minutes, and 77%.

I must say though, when in close range, watching two massive ships clumsily jerking and twisting all over the place is quite funny - they looked like mating whales! (at one stage the sath knocked the orion so hard it flew backwards at 60m/s - straight into me. )

Vasudan Admiral wrote:.....(at one stage the sath knocked the orion so hard it flew backwards at 60m/s - straight into me. )

Dive! Dive! Dive! Hit you burners Pilot!!

I thank yew!!

he's prolly testing on very easy with his modified tables and timecompression. (all of which utterly breaks missions, but i bugreported the timecompression and it was reported as fixed back in 3.5.x)

Hippo wrote:he's prolly testing on very easy with his modified tables and timecompression. (all of which utterly breaks missions, but i bugreported the timecompression and it was reported as fixed back in 3.5.x)

Exactly. And that's what makes me laugh. See the thing is that although I think I've pretty much proved my case I'm trying to be scientific about things. Trashman isn't. He simply stacks everything up so that the Orion wins regardless of how biased the test is and then claims that the Orion can win under certain conditions.

To be honest I think I've passed the point where it's about trying to see who is right and more about trying to see how far Trashman is willing to dig in order to not have to admit he was wrong.

When we had the argument about battleships and the maxim's range it ended with him asking where I got my numbers from when I told him I was 100% certain that it wasn't a mistake. I've already gotten him to be far more ridiculous this time. I simply want to see how far he'll go with this.


I guess it's sorta like the way the Clangers thread didn't end after kazan had it pointed out to him that it wasn't the real moon.

Vasudan Admiral wrote:I don't really want to poke my nose into that thread since it's not a serious test, so I'll only post here:

Just out of shear curiosity, I fredded up my own test of this, giving the sath TI's gunship AI to ensure it would try to point at the orion.

Waitaminute! YOU HAVE GUNSHIP AI!?

I can see where this is going, he's going to end up claiming that despite the fact it doesn't actually work in mission, that is what should happen because the Shivans are so aggressive they'd rather spin on the spot to face their attacker quickly than spend 10 minutes gaining range...

They're aggressive, not stupid....

i still mailtain that if the sath saw the orion using a pinpoint jump, it would do the same thing. And since it is canon that ships do not have to jump out in the same direction they warp in, the optimal response of the sathanas is to just jump like 10km away pointed strait back at the orion. We know they can do it according to TFH (it being the short range jumps and the re-orientation while jumping).

Flipside wrote:I can see where this is going, he's going to end up claiming that despite the fact it doesn't actually work in mission, that is what should happen because the Shivans are so aggressive they'd rather spin on the spot to face their attacker quickly than spend 10 minutes gaining range...

Of course that doesn't change the fact that it can and does kill the Orion by spinning in place and BFRed'ing the hell out of it...

Seems obvious to me the fact ships don't do short range, tactical jumps is because it would kill the game play.

Lemme see if I understand this correctly

An Orion can destroy a Sathanas

IF it jumps into a correct position where it cannot be fired upon in any signifigance

and IF the Sathanas doesn't move.

Basically what he's saying is the Orions beams can do enough damage to destroy a Sathanas. K, got it.

Well he claims that the Sathanas is allowed to move but only if you put AI-Chase orders on both ships.

Something FREDders learn not to do within the first week of FREDding.