Sectorgame

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:14 pm**

Mobius wrote:That kind of quotes can be added well after writing the plot.

It's not strange, really - adding quotes on purpose can be done at any moment to tribute a given author and/or give more importance to the work, possibly with expectable results.

Speaking of BSG (which is the main subject of the topic and going OT is not reasonable), I've always thought that its creators used a load of references on purpose only to raise the value of the final product. I'd like to mention 3 examples, all from Season 2:

1) Episode 13 - Epiphanies

President Roslin says something that, translated back into English, is like "It's interesting how, when you're a president, you don't have to provide anyone with explanations for your actions" (almost certainly, the original version is different - literal translations hardly work). If I remember well, she quoted President Adar in saying that.

The funny thing is that the phrase is a direct reference to George W. Bush, but its moral validity can also be extended to virtually any dictatorship. Strangely, however, the reference to Bush seemed to attract more attention.

2) Episode 15 - Scar

When turning back to check her six only a few seconds before being damaged by Scar itself, Kara Thrace covers a sun with one of her fingers. I read how that action is intended to be a reference to the American WWII pilot Colonel Gregory "Pappy" Boyington, leader of VMF-214. Strange, very strange, because I'm pretty sure the action of covering the Sun with a finger was very well known even near the beginning of WWI. I remember a film in which Boelcke tells the (future) Red Baron to cover the Sun with a finger (and not with the whole hand) to have a better POV.

Yet again, a reference to an American pilot seemed more appropriate. I hardly doubt the creators didn't know about Boelcke (or, more in general, to the true origins of that action) when they decided to add that reference to Boyington.

3) Episode 12 - Resurrection Ship

Lee Adama's experience in this episode is compared to that of George Gay, an American pilot who attacked a Japanese fleet before the battle of Midway (I remember a film about the event). Despite being a very specific event which doesn't have that many analogies with other war experiences, this is another attempt to raise BSG's value by adding yet another reference to an American.

That's why I think those references seem pretty ridiculous and forced attempts to give more importance to the whole show, and that's why I imagine the show's creators deciding to add quotes from the Odyssey only to "help" BSG and give more cultural importance to the show. That's the impression I have.

I think, if you're entire argument is based around forcing in stuff like this, you've pretty much lost the plot. The idea that the writers, being intimately aware of such a 'basic' story as the Illiad - or other works - would actually completely ignore and miss any similarity, then suddenly decide to inject random-ish quotes, is somewhat less plausible than drawing intentional influence and parallels.

I shall try and be short. And fail. But bear with me peeps, please!

RE: Epiphanies - I don't get your point here. From the start, the new BSG was conceived as being inspired by 9/11 - except with the caveat that rather than looking on as the Twin Towers were being destroyed, it was like being in the Twin Towers as the world was lost. Referencing GWB is an obvious shortcut to this effect for a contemporary audience.

So I'm not sure what your point is - should we be surprised that people directly connect references to the world they live in, rather than one miles or decades away?

Or are you suggesting that better writing would be to insert an oblique reference that maybe 10% of the audience might get, rather than effectively referencing something 99% would?

RE: Scar. Now this is odd. I don't know where you get your info about the specific reference, but it's certainly not in the actual episode - it seems your entire criticism is that the writers became aware of this technique from a particular pilot who happened to be American. If they'd, I dunno, read biggles presumably they'd be exempt from criticism?

It's strange how you assume they aren't aware of the Illiad and only add quotes for, I dunno, the hell of it (because surely they can't be aware enough of the importance of the work to insert appropriate quotes yet simultaneously ignore the obvious parallels when scripting - is the suggestion that the writing process is going eeny-meeny-miny-mo through a book of famous quotes when it comes to lines?).

Yet somehow these writers must be aware of a pilot who was on the 'wrong' side of a war which the Us had a relatively peripheral role in, who is almost certainly anonymous in general culture, and who died before the US even entered said war.

RE: Resurrection Ship. This is odd. You are correct in it being a reference to a specific incident etc. Although you seem to think that because it references an American pilot it is bad. Even though it makes sense within the storyline and on a visual level, and I dare you to say it's not a fairly unique perspective for a sci-fi show.

I guess you wanted to feel aggreived that a show, written by Americans for (mostly) an American TV channel and inspired by an existing American TV show might, just might, have more than a few references more meaningful to Americans than other people. I find it a little hard to respond because I'm trying to see the logic, and insofar as I can tell it's you just desperately scrabbling for things to find fault with from a purely personal level.

Mobius wrote:It's not the show, it's the publicity behind it. Trying to give more value to BSG thanks to forced references is a bit strange.

Assuming they're all forced is even stranger - that the writers are aware of lots of literature, they know why it works and the good bits to 'force' a reference to, and yet somehow use none of this knowledge to write until a panicky insert-a-reference session at the end.

Any position that assumes incompetence without evidence, is usually the sign of an incompetent mind at work.

Mobius wrote:Your point? Yeah, I'm adding references, and I'm doing that on purpose. I don't do that to boost my work because it'll be quite hard to get all of the references - if I tell you that a Fenris cruiser named "Huan" engages a Cain cruiser named "Carcharoth", would you get the reference?

The difference with BSG is that they focused most of references to American people while I pick up different nationalities.

Generally speaking, no. I would then google it, and discover it was someone adding in deliberately obscure references in order to appear as much as a smart-arse as possible.

That's the thing abour references - you have to be intelligent in using them so people can understand a bit of what them mean, or you look at best an elitist prick.

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:25 am**

BloodEagle wrote:
karajorma wrote:You should be quite ashamed of yourself even without the donkey f#####g.
I refuse to click that link.

It is actually safe for work.

Although why Mobius seems to think he needs a reference to a donkey f#####g a building in his campaign is beyond me. Perhaps he's also trying to make a point about the phallic nature of FS2 ships while simultaneously mocking all those people who claimed that every mod looked like a penis but if that is what he's after I find his attempt to reference Zhang Huan's work rather trite and predictable.

It really is a shame that he'd sink to this level. There are plenty of other modern artists he could reference instead.

Posted: **Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:01 pm**

Plus OT is what SG does best!

Posted: **Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:03 pm**

What a deep sense of maturity... right, karajorma? You took a couple of statements about Diaspora personally and you're now attempting to bring your personal thoughts about me to GW and SG. Also, your way to turn me into a "problem" of the entire FS community is quite tragicomic, as the only issues I had on GW were indirectly caused by you and you're apparently trying to do something here on SG as well. I have the impression that you'll be attempting to use this reply to give more validity to your arguments, but at that point I'd say that exploiting human nature (reading oddities and replying to them is purely human) is expectable and inconclusive. That eventual action will not put you in the condition to turn this into a superb example of "how I bring problems to FS sites" - I have all the right to reply to disrespectful claims and offenses. I don't have any similar problems in any other community (same thing for RL), so I guess it's not so hard to realize that it's not Mobius who's causing these "issues" - there's a considerable help coming from other people. I'm not going to post here how you pretend to be against censorship while you're not, and I'm not even going to specify how bogus your supposedly correct decision to block my FS Wiki account after circa 1280 contributions was. Did you even know what I've done for the Wiki before supporting the decision to ban my account? Are you aware of how many articles I've created in a matter of months? What are the FS Wiki admins for, if important decisions regarding the Wiki are taken by HLP's administrators? Goober is both a Wiki and HLP administrator, of course, but he should have asked the other Wiki admins, not you and another random HLP administrator. Sure, that action of yours proves how you and the other HLP admins try to extend the quantity and the quality of the punishments to as many FS sites as possible. Oh, did I say HLP admins? I'm generalizing, and I shouldn't do that - there are only two admins who have indirectly or not attempted to kill three projects, and the others support them due to the "With us or against us all!" policy.

Your recent posts here don't add anything to this discussion, and they're not even related to me. Additionally, you can't claim anything about the references I personally use until you get to know at least one of them. Any chance of contributing to this discussion in a coherent way?

I don't care what you're going to do with this reply, because offending me throughout 3 fanbases is unnecessary. And if the SG admins are to prove that they're not influenced by you, they should prevent us both from having arguments here. Blaming me while you carry on with your offenses is a total abuse of powers.

Back on topic:

Aldo, that post of mine is not related to BSG's plot. It was related to what I consider exaggerated publicity. I don't like several aspects of BSG, but that surely doesn't classify me as a "hater" of the show... the point here is a bit different.

Half the description of a BSG episode (at least, the one I can read in my DVDs) is spent describing the references featured in that episode. You'd say that there's nothing wrong in this... but the way they're used makes them look like an obvious attempt to pimp the quality of the show.

From an artistic point of view, I think references should remain hidden until someone finds them. It's the fans who should find the references, not the creators of the show itself. If all these references were in fan sites, it'd be fully understandable... but doing something like this:

"Here's the show... and here's the list of cultural references for everyone to read!"

...is just a little suspicious. That's my personal opinion about the matter.

Posted: **Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:52 pm**

Untill the makers confirm the fact, any attempt to credit any cultural references is conjecture.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:19 am**

Mobius wrote:What a deep sense of maturity... right, karajorma? You took a couple of statements about Diaspora personally and you're now attempting to bring your personal thoughts about me to GW and SG.

No, actually you went full up megalomaniacal "I AM NTV", ignored the moderation team, the admins, and even the existing project leader, and proved incapable of any form of rational argumentation repeatedly.

Mobius wrote: Also, your way to turn me into a "problem" of the entire FS community is quite tragicomic, as the only issues I had on GW were indirectly caused by you and you're apparently trying to do something here on SG as well.

Evidence or it didn't happen. The issues you cause on GW were, frankly, entirely of your own creation. You insulted him in the BtRL forum, remember? Revisionist history much?

Mobius wrote: I have the impression that you'll be attempting to use this reply to give more validity to your arguments, but at that point I'd say that exploiting human nature (reading oddities and replying to them is purely human) is expectable and inconclusive. That eventual action will not put you in the condition to turn this into a superb example of "how I bring problems to FS sites" - I have all the right to reply to disrespectful claims and offenses.

No.

You don't.

Put bluntly, these are not democratic institutions, these are benevolent dictatorships, and you have an amazing gift for pissing off the establishment. The fact that you seem to think your arguments are vacuumtight and act surprised and personally offended when people poke their fingers (or arms, or heads, or whole bodies; they're amateurish and poorly thought out) through the holes in them is mainly at fault, but your inability to grasp the concept of proportional response (remember that argument with Snail you took out of INF and onto the damn wiki for no possible acceptable reason? Hell, I actually ran a test of this once with the Easter thread; if someone has upset you recently you'll go out of your way to pick a fight with them.) you've demonstrated rampant egotism (after all, what else can we credit your persecution complex to?) and disrespect for other community members as well.

Mobius wrote: I don't have any similar problems in any other community (same thing for RL), so I guess it's not so hard to realize that it's not Mobius who's causing these "issues" - there's a considerable help coming from other people. I'm not going to post here how you pretend to be against censorship while you're not, and I'm not even going to specify how bogus your supposedly correct decision to block my FS Wiki account after circa 1280 contributions was. Did you even know what I've done for the Wiki before supporting the decision to ban my account? Are you aware of how many articles I've created in a matter of months? What are the FS Wiki admins for, if important decisions regarding the Wiki are taken by HLP's administrators? Goober is both a Wiki and HLP administrator, of course, but he should have asked the other Wiki admins, not you and another random HLP administrator. Sure, that action of yours proves how you and the other HLP admins try to extend the quantity and the quality of the punishments to as many FS sites as possible.

Your history of contributions is, as always, utterly irrevelant to the decision to ban you from the wiki. A bot could do quite a bit, and in less time, but it would have been banned as well. You attempted to dictate Wiki policy without consulting Wiki admins or the userbase, you were inconsistant in doing so, and you brought a personal argument with Snail onto the wiki. Your presence was disruptive. It was removed.

Similarly, when banned or blocked from one outlet, you have shifted your behavior to another one, without improvement. When told to stop harassing Snail on HLP, you took to GW. When told to stop trying to transfer NTV, you kept doing so.

Mobius wrote: Oh, did I say HLP admins? I'm generalizing, and I shouldn't do that - there are only two admins who have indirectly or not attempted to kill three projects, and the others support them due to the "With us or against us all!" policy.

...this is sheer lunacy. Nobody wants projects to die, except, perhaps, YOU. I said it in the NTV thread then and I wasn't kidding there. You actually threatened to wipe out the project against the objections of the project leader. Now you're accusing Kara of it? Where's your proof? What possible defense can you offer for this?

And if you honestly think I'm an adminstration yes-man, you have no conception of my posting history. Hell, I've been monkeyed and banned before. Unlike you, it didn't render me constitutionally unable to agree with the HLP moderating/adminstration team. I continue to be critical of the current moderating regime for being too twitchy, and I just today took Fury to task for his anti-piracy ban as probably outstepping the forum rules.

Mobius wrote: Your recent posts here don't add anything to this discussion, and they're not even related to me. Additionally, you can't claim anything about the references I personally use until you get to know at least one of them. Any chance of contributing to this discussion in a coherent way?

He has been. Moreso then you. That you don't find his pointing out the fallacies in your arguments welcome is unfortunate, but immaterial.

Mobius wrote: I don't care what you're going to do with this reply, because offending me throughout 3 fanbases is unnecessary. And if the SG admins are to prove that they're not influenced by you, they should prevent us both from having arguments here. Blaming me while you carry on with your offenses is a total abuse of powers.

This demonstrates a critical misunderstanding of the concept of the fanbase. A fanbase is a singular entity. There is only ever one, though it may consist of seperate parts who exist on seperate outlets. In this case, however, there is one unified part, the FS2SCP fanbase, and three outlets, SG, GW, and HLP. The same faces and the same moderators and the same adminstration show up at each.

The problem with you, however, extends across all three. You bring issues from one to another in a way (you are doing so right now!) that puts the lie to your assertion that they are seperate.

You continue to offer no indication, no proveable, unequivocal assertions that any power is being abused. We are not merely going to take your word for it, you who have been challenged and lost in the argumentative arena so many times.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:25 am**

Mobius wrote:What a deep sense of maturity... right, karajorma?

So let me get this straight. When you ignore the writers of BSG and say that they're lying about what influences and references they made in the show that's okay, but when someone does it to you, then it's immature?

I was simply explaining to you in terms you'd understand how nasty your dismissal of the BSG writers was. If someone says that they were influenced by something you should give them the benefit of the doubt. Not simply arrogantly assert that you have a better explanation so they must be lying.

You took a couple of statements about Diaspora personally and you're now attempting to bring your personal thoughts about me to GW and SG.

Nice try Mobius. The issue in the Diaspora forum was over as soon as I kicked you out of it. As far as I was concerned that was the end of the matter. You weren't going to talk crap in the Diaspora forum any more so there was no need for anything to go beyond that.

You seem to want to claim this is some sort of personal vendetta. Strange how everyone seems to have a personal vendetta against you though. Not just me, Goober, Battuta, Snail, probably ngtm1r now, etc.

So no. I don't have a personal vendetta against you. If you'd stop acting in the arrogant high handed way you have in the last 8 months I doubt I'd have any problems with you at all.

But you won't. You seem incapable of realising that when you get so many people annoyed with you it might possibly be your fault.

Also, your way to turn me into a "problem" of the entire FS community is quite tragicomic, as the only issues I had on GW were indirectly caused by you and you're apparently trying to do something here on SG as well.

I haven't turned you into a problem. You've turned yourself into a problem. This was a nice discussion about BSG until you decided to come in and tell Flipside he was wrong because you say so.

so I guess it's not so hard to realize that it's not Mobius who's causing these "issues" - there's a considerable help coming from other people.

Because people who are sick of your arrogant, high-handed behaviour on HLP and GW are really annoyed when you come to SG and act arrogant and high-handed?

Again you refuse to acknowledge that it's your actions that are causing the problem.

I'm not going to post here how you pretend to be against censorship while you're not

You just did.

and I'm not even going to specify how bogus your supposedly correct decision to block my FS Wiki account after circa 1280 contributions was.

Good. Cause I had no part in it. Goober informed everyone that you had been banned from the Wiki for a week after you complained at him for vandalising a page he hadn't even touched. Your actions following that swiftly made the ban permanent. I had nothing to do with either and in fact have always been the admin arguing for the MOST leniency to be shown towards you.

I could easily have had you monkeyed for that nonsense on the Diaspora board and given the mood of the forum towards you at the time, I don't doubt every single admin and mod would have agreed I was right to do it. Instead I simply told you to never post on there again.

Feel free to make a misinformed rant about how I persuaded everyone to ban you cause I hate you. I'm sure everyone will get a good laugh out of it when I post it on the moderator forum on HLP.

Did you even know what I've done for the Wiki before supporting the decision to ban my account? Are you aware of how many articles I've created in a matter of months? What are the FS Wiki admins for, if important decisions regarding the Wiki are taken by HLP's administrators? Goober is both a Wiki and HLP administrator, of course, but he should have asked the other Wiki admins, not you and another random HLP administrator. Sure, that action of yours proves how you and the other HLP admins try to extend the quantity and the quality of the punishments to as many FS sites as possible. Oh, did I say HLP admins? I'm generalizing, and I shouldn't do that - there are only two admins who have indirectly or not attempted to kill three projects, and the others support them due to the "With us or against us all!" policy.

Oh wait. You already have.

Your recent posts here don't add anything to this discussion, and they're not even related to me. Additionally, you can't claim anything about the references I personally use until you get to know at least one of them. Any chance of contributing to this discussion in a coherent way?

I think I've explained my actions above.

I'm generalizing, and I shouldn't do that - there are only two admins who have indirectly or not attempted to kill three projects, and the others support them due to the "With us or against us all!" policy.

Okay this bit deserves special consideration though.

How have Goober and I attempted to kill the projects you are involved in? Are you so arrogant as to say that if you can't post publicly the project is dead or dying?

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:09 am**

Put bluntly:

When one man calls you an asshat, ignore him. When two men call you an asshat, wonder. When three men call you an asshat, start wiping the back of your head.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:13 am**

Seriously, Mobius.

Look, I sat in on the discussions about banning you from the wiki and perma-monkeying you. Goob and Kara didn't even press for it at first. It was other admins - I won't name names - who were the first to suggest the idea.

No action was taken until everyone agreed. And you were given chances, a lot of chances, by Kara in particular.

There are no 'two admins' conspiring against you. The reactions you drew from admins who'd barely even heard of you were strong.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:42 pm**

Ok, enough. Shut up, all of you. Not only are you way off topic, but you're also making Sectorgame public Chatter forums into a way to flame each other. Either do it in the Rants forum, or stop it and start acting like civilised people. No exceptions to any of you.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:06 pm**

Well, I am tempted to lock the thread, it'd be the first one on SG in, quite literally, years, but I will make one thing straight right here:

I've followed these arguments across threads on HLP, on Forums on HLP, over onto GW, and now here.

Now, I've got nothing against anyone, but this is not the place to bring it, I'm willing to show some level of tolerance because Mobius doesn't have rant access, but please try and keep it out of here.

This board has a long history of unlocked threads and un-banned/moderated users (spam-bots not included), I'd like it to stay that way.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:06 pm**

First of all, this should definitely go to Rants. We're off topic here, and if the discussion really has to proceed and come to a conclusion it should be moved.

Now, take a look at the people who're causing this. The only reason why this is happening is simple: someone is pushing the "Import Issue from HLP" button. Read my first posts on this thread - are they related to HLP or GW? They're not. It was karajorma who caused this by pushing the button I mentioned above, and no one can't blame for me for replying to all these comments. I'm not the one who derailed this thread, and this is a fact - not an opinion.

If there were different people saying these things, it would have been interesting and acceptable. A copy and paste from HLP makes your opinion obvious and pretty expectable.

I'll reply to each one of you and remain clean/civil at the same time. Let's see if you can do the same.

NGTM-1R: That's pure misinformation. No offense to Galemp and his recent claim, but I forgot about who's the true leader of NTV on purpose - carrying on was not necessary, and would have meant going against a person I have no bad things to say about. Both me and Galemp have our claims to backup our assumptions, and it's quite probable that Galemp forgot about assigning the role of leader to me. But this doesn't change anything - I asked to move NTV because HLP's staff was evidently confusing punishment for bad behavior on the forums with relenting (and, sometimes, halting) development.

Wheter or not the HLP admins decided who should be leading NTV despite my obvious efforts to keep the project alive is another matter. Apparently, something similar happened to the FSCRP as well.

As for insulting karajorma on the BtRL forum, I hardly doubt that's true. I posted a comment, which got a harsh reply by karajorma himself - the consequent reaction (saying that disrespecting people so easily and with impunity is not civil) can be hardly considered an offense. Moreso, karajorma did not apologize for his unnecessary offenses by claiming that I haven't been sorry for what I did on HLP (which is false) and also sent a number of PMs in which he carried out with offenses (indirectly or not). At this point, I hardly doubt you can point me out as the offender here - unlike karajorma, I did not make an extensive use of vulgarities (read = offenses).

Your arguments about the Wiki are quite poor. I surely didn't come out with a Wiki policy - it's the HLP admins who interpreted an invitation which was intended to suggest people to rely more on talk pages. See? That's an interpretation you may or may not have shared - this doesn't mean that I wanted to impose a policy. That said, you can hardly blame me for a wrong interpretation of my actions. The funny thing is that you consider that interpretation a fact when it clearly isn't.

About NTV (again) - me attempting to kill the project? That's funny - I wanted to move the project because I thought an environment in which forum issues don't affect development was necessary. I have never tried to kill NTV (and the fact that I'm the only person who's recently worked on the plot, the modpack and also worked a lot on the first few missions is well enough to force people to reconsider their opinion), and trying to claim it is totally wrong. Once again, it's your personal interpretation to lead people to think that I tried to kill NTV. Once again, you have proved to claim the false. How do you deal with it?

And karajorma indirectly attempted to kill NTV. He clearly told me via PM that he was for my banning, and that means halting progress on the project.

Now, if you consider the human aspect of the deal, what are the chances to continue to work on a project after a banning an a truly unfair treatment? I would have simply resigned the team, hoping that someone else would take my place as FREDder, plot writer and modpack creator. Giving the shortage of dedicated FREDders nowadays, do you think it would have been easy to keep NTV alive?

A similar concept can also be applied to FSCRP and INF. If you could only take a look at the internal forums of these two projects, you'd notice how relevant my efforts are. Speaking of the FSCRP, I'm pretty much the only person who's actively upgrading campaigns, but the lack of testers and additional FREDders is slowing down progress. As for INF, I'm the only active FREDder and I'm also working a lot of upgrading the whole package, adding new features, recruiting new members and managing the plot. Now, after reading this, how can you claim (indirectly or not) that the projects would remain alive without me? Monkeying me for what I did on the public forums is ok, but banning my account means killing three projects hosted at HLP.

Finally, about the last bit of your post, in which you ask for proof:

1) HLP admins deciding what to do with FS Wiki accounts in an abuse of powers, as HLP admins who aren't Wiki admins should not have the authority to do that;

2) Karajorma trying to import issues from HLP to GW (and, consequently, to GW to SG) is an abuse of powers because he's clearly exploting the fact that he's a moderator here on GW (and, in fact, no one complained when he started derailing this thread);

One more thing: I would normally accepted the recent punishment, but it's the behavior of certain people which is making people worse. A while ago, for example, I got a very disturbing PM from Goober5000 - in poor words, he said that people (who?) believe that I talk a lot about projects without achieving anything. He also said that the only reason why I haven't been banned is the Galemp still thinks I have something to offer... you can't even imagine how annoying those words were. Truly annoying, because spending many hundred hours working on projects only to read an attempt to minimize my work is totally awful. He may have asked Admiral Nelson, Woomeister, SadisticSid (even if inactive) and Macfie before claiming, indirectly or not, that I don't do anything. I have the misfortune of working with skeleton teams, and this leads to continuous delays... but how can Goober blame me for that? He is an HLP admin, and he's therefore able to take a look at the private forums.

When I told him that he was wrong (because what he said was false) he changed behavior and replied with a vague PM. When I redirected him to examples of my work, he said that I got the stuff done before the recent events. I told him to take a look at the files to see when they got created and modified for the last time... guess what, he didn't reply.

That was illogical. He was basically giving for sure that I stopped working after the recent events... how's that even possible? Do you think I would continue to browse the HLP, GW and SG boards if I were no longer interested on the projects? I might have simply left the community (and I would have done it under different circumstances) and forget about you all. Guess why I didn't? Because I have never considered the possibility of condemn three projects to death simply because a handful of people got uptight and decided to interpret my own actions according to their personal thoughts. In any case, Goober's total disrespect is one of the main reasons why I overreacted here. I'd really like to know what he would have done had a random member complained about the possible death of ST:R a while ago.

Karajorma: I'm afraid you're evading the main subject of this discussion, as the reasons which led this topic to derail as not as vague as you're trying to specify.

I am fully aware of the fact that my reaction is exaggerated, but if you were me what would you do? What you have done in the past few posts is offending me, so you shouldn't be surprised.

It's quite funny how you're proving me right by making a wrong use of the term "everyone". Goober, Battuta, NGTM-1R, Snail and who else? Seriously, I receive PMs of people who appreciate my work and also thank me for what I do. I got seven positive PMs on HLP today, and it's quite funny to read you claiming that so many members are against me. The people I work on appreciate my work, and I can't wait to see Nelson coming back to check out my latest upgrade of Warzone. Your use of the word "everyone" is therefore out of place because you can consider a handful of people and then claim that the whole community is against me. That's a bit arrogant, isn't it?

On the other hand, I talked with people who don't like you, and their number is quite high considering the community members you mentioned eariler. For the sake of coherence, you should be as much as embarassed and offensed as you think I should be.

I also find quite funny how you're evading many important subjects. First of all, there's nothing in your post about, just to mention an example, that banning me is not going to help the community. The monkeying is ok and I'm not complaining about it - it simply means that I need to wait a while before being able to post public updates (which isn't even that important). It's the attempt to go against INF, the FSCRP and NTV to bug me. The one thing I dislike was how you (Goober and you) showed no respect towards my work. You were ready to ban me, meaning that you basically wanted to prevent me from working. Goober sent two disrespectful PMs in which he minimized my work and also came out with false claims. Do you think it's weird to dislike your actions after the episodes which occurred after my monkeying?

In poor words, and I really dislike to say this, you and Goober don't know how to deal with developers. Your truly demotivating PMs and claims don't help morale, and in fact I haven't resigned from my roles because I'm the way too dedicated to resign. I'm not overrating my position within the teams I mentioned because browsing the private forums would be well enough to acknowledge the importance of my position within the INF, FSCRP and NTV teams.

We have all seen community members resigning for much less, so I think it's more appropriate for us all to calm down a bit and show more respect.

I believe anyone's actions may be questioned if necessary. My actions were, but at this point I think your actions should be questioned as well. You may claim the contrary, but at this point I'm pretty sure that you and Goober need to behave differently. What's the advantage in being hosted at HLP if you indirectly lead developers to resign following accidents?

I used to respect you both, and even a lot. But after your recent behavior I have seriously reconsidered my opinion. One more thing: open yourself to criticism and self criticism, because I doubt that another developer dealing you would decide not to resign following another superb example of demotivating behavior. Please note that this is not an offense - this is a suggestion. It's not an imposition, either.

General Battuta: First of all, welcome to SG. I would have appreciated your presence even more had the circumstances been different.

I would believe you, but karajorma and Goober5000's PMs were pretty clear in the personal messages they sent me (and I guess you haven't been informed about). Karajorma claimed he was for banning me while Goober said that it was Galemp who "saved" me. Are you sure of what you're saying? Your post is pretty much contradicting both Goober and karajorma.

Pre-EDIT:

Flipside: Thank you for your consideration, and yeah - this should have been in Rants if only I had access to it. I heard recently that Sectorgame is not corrupt, and your post clearly confirms that.

I know I have overreacted, but I couldn't do otherwise. I got quite annoyed after reading certain posts so I decided to reply.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:09 pm**

ShadowGorrath wrote:Ok, enough. Shut up, all of you. Not only are you way off topic, but you're also making Sectorgame public Chatter forums into a way to flame each other. Either do it in the Rants forum, or stop it and start acting like civilised people. No exceptions to any of you.

You're not a moderator, don't act like it.

If Mobius posts this kind of thing, he must be prepared to have it turned upon him. If you don't want public criticism, don't post in a public forum. All told, we've been remarkably polite considering his high-handed tone and baseless assertions of conspiracy and vendetta. This kind of assertion is not the sort of thing you'd survive on most forums. (Pull this on RPG.net for example, and you'll be out on your ass so quickly your head will spin. SD.net you wouldn't even last long enough to post this kind of drivel.) The mere fact he isn't completely banned for this kind of conspiracy-mongering puts the lie to all his assertions.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:11 pm**

Mobius wrote:First of all, this should definitely go to Rants.

Good. You don't have access to Rants so it would solve the problem without the need for a lock.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:13 pm**

NGTM-1R: Sorry, but the drawbacks of posting on public boards can also go against you.

You posted wrong claims earlier, ergo my decision to reply. As top contributor to the NTV project, reading that I attempted to kill the project is asking for a serious and detailled reply. You should have known better, NGTM-1R.

Karajorma: At this point, it would be the most appropriate solution.

Sectorgame

BSG

Sorry, but this is necessary...

Re: Sorry, but this is necessary...