Re: Shivans and such

#16
Interesting point with regards to the ancients - the interview states that there could potentially have been Ancients in a future FreeSpace instalment, thus in turn suggesting that they weren't all destroyed by the Shivans, i.e. the Shivans didn't completely annihilate them 8000 years ago. There are multiple possible implication there - maybe the Shivans just glass the most critical worlds, and let a small number survive, or maybe a few Ancients escaped to another part of space? In either case, it suggests they're not in the business of methodically hunting down and exterminating entire species to the last surviving members. Possibly, all they're trying to do is either a) decrease the threat from the species or b) Stop their war/subspace use.
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Re: Shivans and such

#17
Inferno was originally going to take that story route with Ancients reappearing. That idea was dropped though. With the Ancients, that would definitely help out the T and V, and if added in FS3, the war against the Shivans might have come to a favorable resolution, especially if even more previous species that faced the Shivans in the past arrived and had increased their tech and numbers for many 1000's of years. Then the T, V, Ancients, and other races all gang up on the Shivans. You think their is a chance of a Shivan defeat with that outcome? Would that be enough?

Re: Shivans and such

#18
On the other hand, the Ancients' monologues suggest the exact opposite; the Shivans are very thorough and do not like to leave survivors, or at least functional ecosystems, behind them. For all we know the Shivans don't actually care much for who occupies life-bearing planets. They just get in the way. What they really hate are the ecosystems themselves. Since the Shivans appear specially adapted to a spaceborne environment, perhaps deliberately...

I personally think bringing the Ancients back was/is terribly sketchy, as it takes away from the main storytelling device, the Shivans. The entire implacable menace of them is undermined thereby.
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Re: Shivans and such

#20
Interesting point with regards to the ancients - the interview states that there could potentially have been Ancients in a future FreeSpace instalment, thus in turn suggesting that they weren't all destroyed by the Shivans, i.e. the Shivans didn't completely annihilate them 8000 years ago. There are multiple possible implication there - maybe the Shivans just glass the most critical worlds, and let a small number survive, or maybe a few Ancients escaped to another part of space? In either case, it suggests they're not in the business of methodically hunting down and exterminating entire species to the last surviving members. Possibly, all they're trying to do is either a) decrease the threat from the species or b) Stop their war/subspace use.
I think if the Ancients monologues do indicate anything, it's that the Shivans were systematically exterminating the Ancients.

But it doesn't necessarily mean it was impossible to hide from them - the Ancients withdrawal to their own homeworld(s) is somewhat of a moot point, as the Shivans could probably easily track them to it (I'd expect the withdrawal to still involve defensive lines, too). It'd be different circumstances if some concealed themselves on uncolonized or very low population worlds.

One other odd thing in FS1 is that the Shivans seem to have explicitly identified the two species they were fighting and then set out to wipe out Vasuda and Earth; it doesn't seem that they were initially interested in glassing every occupied planet they came across. That would seem to contrast with the war against the Ancients - it's not clear, but it seems like they methodically forced the Ancients out of every occupied system before dealing the final blow to their home system.

Re: Shivans and such

#21
The wording of the V staffer I got the information out of was, if I recall correctly, that 'the Ancients would return'. But he could well have meant return as part of the story; that could simply mean the discovery of new Ancient artifacts. The Ancients played a significant part in the story of FreeSpace 2, after all, if only via the Knossos.

Re: Shivans and such

#23
The wording of the V staffer I got the information out of was, if I recall correctly, that 'the Ancients would return'. But he could well have meant return as part of the story; that could simply mean the discovery of new Ancient artifacts. The Ancients played a significant part in the story of FreeSpace 2, after all, if only via the Knossos.
The Ancients were always somewhat of a Chekovs gun in FS, from the subspace tracker to the Knossos... although I can't really think of a way in which the species would add much as antagonist/protagonist additions.

Re: Shivans and such

#25
Shivantown is, to me, a horrible idea though. At least in the form of an actual, inhabited planet.

As a group of transient, giant colony ships and installations around the shattered remains of a devastated system though... it'd even be a nice bookend if the intro focused on the Capellan refugee ships.

(I've always imagined that the bulk of Capellan survivors would end up trapped upon various decommissioned hulks and transport ships, because no inhabited world would be willing to take on their burden. Sadly - along with a great deal of my early ideas, they've all been rendered into cliche by more modern tv sci-fi. Hell, the very old storyline of Reciprocity had a concept almost identical to The Passage episode of BSG)

Re: Shivans and such

#27
And I've always thought it's hilarious to suggest any group that can be stored in spacecraft can't be stored on a planet much more easily. The size difference is vast. Plus, you know, expenses and soforth.
With regard to Shivans, or Capellan refugees?

Re: Shivans and such

#28
Shivantown is, to me, a horrible idea though. At least in the form of an actual, inhabited planet.
Better to imagine it as a system and not just a planet. Maybe some real and artificial planetoids, and maybe a Dyson sphere among many other gigantic and interesting structures. Someone must make a campaign like that someday.

Edited to fix quote error.
Last edited by gary on Thu May 05, 2011 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Shivans and such

#29
With regard to Shivans, or Capellan refugees?
Capellans. If the Shivans actually want to live on spaceships, it can be done. The fact they seem to be specially adapted to survive in space makes it much more reasonable for them than either of the GTVA's races to boot.

It can be done with the Capellans too, but it's stupid. Maintaining large populations in space indefinitely would be extremely expensive, and it's not like the population figures we've seen suggested for GTVA worlds make a lack of space plausible.
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