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Sukhoi Pak Fa

1 by ShadowGorrath
ASW Team
Which is supposed to have its first flight and all this month :D Somewhat hyped, despite it being early to celebrate.

For some reason I prefer Russian aircraft than American/NATO. Dunno why.

Anyway, the Sukhoi Pak Fa, unless you heard of it already, is this:

Youtube video of the concept

Sketches/renders and all that

Wikipedia article

How the Pak Fa looks like is still a secret. There are similar concepts to the Su-47 Berkut ( hardly surprising, the Berkut was sorta a predecessor of the Pak Fa ).
Ancient-Shivan War

5 by kosh
SG Fanatic
From wikipedia:
Although there is no reliable information about the PAK FA's specifications yet, it is known from interviews with people in the Russian Air Force that it will be stealthy, have the ability to supercruise, be outfitted with the next generation of air-to-air, air-to-surface, and air-to-ship missiles, and incorporate an AESA radar. The PAK FA will use on its first flights 2 Saturn 117S engines (about 14.5 ton thrust each). The 117S is an advanced version of the AL-31F, but built with the experience gained in the AL-41F program. The AL-41F powered the Mikoyan MFI fighter (Project/Article 1.44). Later versions of the PAK FA will use a completely new engine (17.5 ton thrust each), developed by NPO Saturn or FGUP MMPP Salyut.
If this is true it would seem the Pak Fa (say that 5 times fast :P) is much more well rounded than the F22 ended up, and evidently at a fraction of the price.
For some reason I prefer Russian aircraft than American/NATO. Dunno why.
Personally I prefer them for their appearence, comparing previous generation aircraft (su-27 with the f-16 for example), the american designs seem much more blocky, while the fulcrums and flankers were very smooth (not to mention pretty dangerous up close).

9 by Mobius
SG Commando
You really need to provide examples, then.

Although the Soviet forces preferred numbers over quality, I hardly doubt their combat aircraft can be pointed out as weaker versions of Western planes.

I think the only reason Western (and Israeli) planes did not face catastrophic losses in the past few decades is that they fought Russian planes and only a very limited number of Russian pilots. The MiG-15 was more than capable of taking an F-86 down, but the fact that during the Korean War most MiG pilots were Chinese led to a decisive and relatively easy Western victory.

EDIT: Back on topic, I'm looking forward to the PAK FA. I somewhat prefer many Russian designs over their American counterparts due to their designs, so I guess the PAK FA will not delude me. I don't know why, but I imagine it as a bigger and longer Su-37 with prominent engines...
Non ti curar di loro, ma guarda e passa!

President and Founder of the Official Karajorma Fan Club
(the memberlist has been lost for unknown reasons)

11 by ngtm1r
Ascended SG Initiate
MiG-29, Su-27, MiG-24/27, MiG-21, Su-37

F-16/F/A-18, F-15, F-111/GR.3 Tornado, A-7/F-8, F-22/Eurofighter

Russian aircraft are traditionally at least five years behind Western ones in capablity and frequently closer to a decade. They're also usually crap multirole; the MiG-29 was touted on export as a multirole aircraft but the sad truth is it's got almost no real air-to-surface guided weapons capablity, and the export version's main guided weapon is a beam rider missile, a technology the West abandoned early in the Vietnam War.

The only time the Russians built an aircraft indisputably superior to one the Western world had in living memory was when they designed the Su-25, and that got trumped by the A-10 within a few years.

Your thesis regarding Russian pilots is terribly flawed, as well, since many of the pilots the Israeli's actually fought were Russian. (Perversely they managed to draw the wrong concept from that experience and went for ground-controlled intercept rather than airborne radar; AFAIK they still don't have an airborne radar platform truly comparable to the E-3.)
IAR
A Numbered Existence
In The Service
Monsters
SAMAS

12 by Mobius
SG Commando
You're completely ignoring the MiG-15 and the MiG-21. They were more than capable of shooting down their counterparts (the F-86 and F-4, respectively). Also, Russian planes had guns since the beginning of the Vietnam War while the most advanced American planes did not have any - apparently, the Russians knew that missiles were not as reliable as they were supposed to be.

Also, you didn't mention the fact that the Eurofighter has been designed as an answer to the MiG-29 and Su-27. I don't think a MiG-29/Su-27 Vs. EF-2000 contest is fair.

Uhm, and I did not say that Western forces never faced Russian pilots.
Non ti curar di loro, ma guarda e passa!

President and Founder of the Official Karajorma Fan Club
(the memberlist has been lost for unknown reasons)

13 by ngtm1r
Ascended SG Initiate
The Mig-15 I discard, because jet technology was new enough at the time that anyone could extemporize a good jet aircraft by pure chance.

The MiG-21 might be effective, but on the other hand every encounter it ever had with the Phantom, both in Vietnam and against the Israelis, it was thrown for a loss. The combat record to support the contention just isn't there.

Nor did I even bother comparing the Eurofighter to the Su-27/MiG-29, but rather the most recent versions of those aircraft which are/were its contemporaries.
IAR
A Numbered Existence
In The Service
Monsters
SAMAS

14 by CIH
Elite SG Guardian
ngtm1r wrote:The Mig-15 I discard, because jet technology was new enough at the time that anyone could extemporize a good jet aircraft by pure chance.

The MiG-21 might be effective, but on the other hand every encounter it ever had with the Phantom, both in Vietnam and against the Israelis, it was thrown for a loss. The combat record to support the contention just isn't there.

Nor did I even bother comparing the Eurofighter to the Su-27/MiG-29, but rather the most recent versions of those aircraft which are/were its contemporaries.
Wouldn't the Panavia Tornado be a better contemporary then the Typhoon ?

15 by MatthewPapa
SG Fanatic
F-22 > all

Sure it is highly specialized, but that is what makes it such a great interceptor

I was sad when the US govt ended their orders so suddenly after spending all of that time and money developing the F-22. I know cuts are reasonable, but simply ending the program is a little vain IMO
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