Anyone heard the news about the marine convoy that was attacked, then for the marines to turn on local civilians ? Original story was a convoy was attacked by a bomb (one marine killed, several injured) and then several civilians killed in a gun fight.

The latest story is the marines set-up a check point after they were bombeed, killed some random students in the wrong place at the wrong time, entered a near by house and killed several women, children, elderly etc.

Now, I'm as quick to accuse the Yanks of being gung-ho as anyone else, but is anyone else struggling to believe this as much as i am ?
Given the eye-witness' have plenty of reason to lie, I doubt if their statements can be taken as fact. I don't doubt civilians were killed, but for the marines to enter random houses and murder baybees and grandpas and grandmas ?

Yeah, theres a lot of Political play being made of this. I suspect the forces were out of order, and that arguments broke out and it ensued from there. I find myself doubting, however, that it turned into a bloodbath or rampage described by the locals.

It's not impossible, but given that I do believe most Americans are aware of just how touchy the situation is over there, I find it unlikely.

Anyone heard the news about the marine convoy that was attacked, then for the marines to turn on local civilians ? Original story was a convoy was attacked by a bomb (one marine killed, several injured) and then several civilians killed in a gun fight.

The latest story is the marines set-up a check point after they were bombeed, killed some random students in the wrong place at the wrong time, entered a near by house and killed several women, children, elderly etc.

Now, I'm as quick to accuse the Yanks of being gung-ho as anyone else, but is anyone else struggling to believe this as much as i am ?
Given the eye-witness' have plenty of reason to lie, I doubt if their statements can be taken as fact. I don't doubt civilians were killed, but for the marines to enter random houses and murder baybees and grandpas and grandmas ?

I think it may not have happened in this time, but I'd also reckon it will have or will happen at some point. Aside from the whole political issues of the war, etc, the whole area is seemingly descending into complete anarchy, and I would not be surprised in the slightest to see someone (troop) lose it and go Colonel Kurtz in the midst of near constant killing.

EDIT; this bbc article makes an interesting point;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 033648.stm


A simple US military statement hinted at the bloody chain of events which the attack started - though subsequent scrutiny showed it to be far from the truth.

It said: "A US marine and 15 civilians were killed yesterday from the blast of a roadside bomb in Haditha.

"Immediately following the bombing, gunmen attacked the convoy with small arms fire. Iraqi army soldiers and marines returned fire, killing eight insurgents and wounding another."
...
However, a day after the incident, local journalist Taher Thabet got his video camera out and filmed scenes that - whatever they were - were not the aftermath of a roadside bomb.

The bodies of women and children, still in their nightclothes; interior walls and ceilings peppered with bullet holes; bloodstains on the floor.

I haven't heard anything about this until now...

If they were Army I'd believe it, but the Marines are better-disciplined then this.

youve never worked with the bastards, id believe marines before army

youve never worked with the bastards, id believe marines before army

I deal with Marines all the time. MCAS Miramar's less the two miles from where I live, Pendleton isn't much further.

yesyes dealing and working are completly different, theyre badass to get hammered with, but when it comes to working theres very few groups in the world that are as stupid as a whole

They are all bastards.
War sucks.

Extremely graphic photo's:
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqwarpix.html#IRAQWARPIX

Let's not be naive, here; as long as people are human, they're capable of s### like this; all you need are the right combinations of stress and pressure, and let's not forget modern combat training is also about complete desensitization to the actuality of killing other people. And once one does it, mob mentality kicks in, too.

( Regardless of whether it's true in this instance or not, I think it's inevitable this will occur)

yesyes dealing and working are completly different, theyre badass to get hammered with, but when it comes to working theres very few groups in the world that are as stupid as a whole

You've never had to deal with the Army.

The truth is that the USMC spent a lot of time and money improving their training in the last decade and a half. You can trust the Marines to follow their orders and not just shoot up random s### for the hell of it. Meanwhile the Army's damn near falling apart. It's gotten to the point where nobody really trusts Army troops to do anything right anymore.

Pretty much the only way you have this kind of thing happen is some new second lieutenant's in charge and they snap. Nobody's really figured out how to stop that before it happens yet, but they're doing a lot better then they did in Vietnam. So far.


Grug: I'd take that site with a grain of salt. Not the pictures of course, but it's clearly being sensationalistic, and not-quite-so-clearly willing to lie through it's teeth. What tipped me off was the assertion that the casuality figures were five times higher because of people who died in or while en route to Germany.

If you make it as far as an aid station in the field your chances of surviving are something like 95%, maybe higher. Just living long enough for a medic/corpsman to get to you gives you an 80-85% chance of surviving. If you're being medevac'd to Germany the odds you'll survive are getting pretty close to 1-to-1.

The site content is highly biased yes. But the f#####g photo's tell a story of their own.

Tears me up to see s### like that, and to know its happening nearly every day somewhere in this screwed up world. =/

It's graphical images like those that helped halt the vietnam war, yet you'll be hard pressed to see anything remotely like it on screens these days...

You've never had to deal with the Army.

aye but i have, more with them than the Marines, hell I lived on an Army base for 3 years in Germany, but in that same office i worked with the Army, Air Force and Marines all rolling through at certain points

it goes, in order of compitancy
Air Force
Navy(ive heard theyre not bad to work with/for)
Army
Marines

I just started my summer job at Kirtland AFB with the Air Force this past week, and they rule, got to take pilots to their fighters all day yesterday



Grug: Where are all the photos of what theyve done to our troops as well as to themselves? Their suicide bombs dont only hit us. ALso where are the pictures of them desicrating our troops dead bodies?

Before you try to jump on only us take a look around, goes both ways. I dont doubt that we f### up, but were not the only ones.

Grug: Where are all the photos of what theyve done to our troops as well as to themselves? Their suicide bombs dont only hit us. ALso where are the pictures of them desicrating our troops dead bodies?

Before you try to jump on only us take a look around, goes both ways. I dont doubt that we f### up, but were not the only ones.

Hey; you don't let away a murderer just because some other, entirely unconnected, mad b#stard killed their families, do you?

It goes without saying that the people suicide bombing mosques, kidnapping and killing innocent people, etc, are utter cunts. We know this; we get this in the media every day. But it's our countries that came in, and created these conditions. And if we're going to claim moral high ground in doing so, our troops' behaviour has to be exemplary; as soon as you start citing stuff like 'oh, look at the bad s### they did', then you step onto their justification, the reasoning they use to excuse their actions.

WE invaded this country. We destabilised it, destroyed the infrastructure, and fundamentally failed to make any sort of plan to rebuild it or even prevent the wave of ethnic violence. Our leaders were warned of it, and ignored it, dismissed it, in the expectation that people will behave themselves when decades of oppression and authority are removed. We created that anarchy.

The site has pics of both iraq'ies and US. marines. Quite a few of both.

I wasn't jumping on anyone. I was just saying that war is s###. no body should have to live through that crap.

I was just saying that war is s###. no body should have to live through that crap.

i dont think anyone is arguing that point



aldo: touche