#16
Ancients were destroyed 8000 years before FS2 and, as far as we know, invaders used Lucifer's beam weapons. This seriously limits theories. Antares described Immune System theory wery well in his Shivan Manifesto on HLP, which is one of my favorite theories.

Anyway were Ancients destroyed by Shivans really? Maybe that was another race using Lucifer technology and Shivans got it little before FS1 by destroying that race or negotiations? Or maybe Shivans have been through large home war which took them back to tech level of our times and returning to Freespace level took a lot of time?


However there's another intresting theory. Maybe Shivans are existing for a very long time and driffences beetwen FS1 and FS2 in their tech level was not because they had no FS2 technology, but...they've specially sent such a low-tech forces? Maybe Shivans are fighting for sport/religy/whatever sending little more advanced forces than their enemises' and Ancients were destroyed because they destroyed races, which could be good Shivan enemises in future?

#17
Ok, finally I finished this goddam excellent game, which kicked Metal Gear series to 2nd place in my favorite list.

This is my theory. I elaborated it while playing FS1 and concluded it ten minutes ago.

Shivans kill their enemies through swarming methods. We saw that their biggest threat in FS1 was the SD Lucifer, and as Admiral Petrarch states near the end of FS2, "the Lucifer fleet we faced 32 years ago is nothing compared to this Armada". Meaning they most likely didn't send all of their fleet since building 80 SJ Sathanas in 32 years is unlikely, mainly because if they had such a powerful economy, they would have annihilated the GTVA with total ease.

Perhaps they measured something like this:
GTVA Fleet * 5 = Shivan fleet we'll send

And yet they lost. As stated in the Tech room, the GTVA may be the first and only force that could have defeated the Shivans. This may have forced them to destroy the star that conforms the Nebula in FS2 in order to gather resources for their next invasion (as Alpha One attacks Gas miners inside the Nebula, proving that if the Shivans gathered resources, they needed them). They may have recalculated their attacking numbers (remember we don't know how many wars the Shivans are fighting while dealing with the GTVA). Their new equation may have been following these parameters:

GTVA Fleet * 7 = Shivans we'll send.

Remember they initially sent ONE Ravanna destroyer, and Alpha 1 wiped it clean. Then they launched a Sathanas, and recalculated

GTVA Fleet * 15 = Shivans we'll send.

And they lost again! This may have provoked them enough to think "Ok, this is too much. We're going full force to that f#####g galaxy and exterminate everything in-sight". Their final calculation would have been:

GTVA Fleet * 100 = Shivans we'll send (probably an enormous percentage of their total forces).

But, alas, Sathanas are slow. Destroying the jumps nodes out of Capella left them with no choice but to destroy the Capella Star. "WHY?", the thread title asks. Why not? They had no business left in Capella since they couldn't stop the Vega jump node from being destroyed, so they sent everyone to hell (including my Alpha One :( ), perhaps with the intention of opening a warp rift that may have sent them to another place in the universe. Perhaps their home. Perhaps another enemy which proved to be less resourceful. Perhaps Ross 128.

The truth is, the GTVA survived. Bosch was never seen again. And Twisted Infinites looms in the horizon.

#18
I always love making the slightly smart-arsed comment at about this point, that we don't really know how xenocidal the Shivans actually are.

:D

#23
I still rather like the idea that Shivans are the subspace 'dark reflection' of those who use it. And, just like your own reflection, the harder you hit it, the harder it hits you back, as it were.
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#26
Ah... but if you break a mirror, you only multiply the number of reflections ;)

Seriously though, we know that 'Freespace' may well be the larger problem the Terrans face, I'll agree that Shivans didn't evolve in Subspace, else they would have developed shields that worked there, but maybe, just maybe, Shivans are 'created' by travelling through Subspace, mirroring whatever uses it and reflecting it back. It's a very esoterical theory, but it always struck me as odd that as soon as the GTA or GTVA threw something at the Shivans, they always seemed to have an equal and opposite for it, the most noteable example being the Colossus.
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#28
Heh, never said the idea was perfect ;)

Oddly enough though, and another thought to throw into the mix, the original 'Super Weapon' of the Shivans was Shields, which we acquired. Then it was Beam Cannon, which we acquired. We also learned to track ships through Subspace by studying them.

In fact, the GTVA has learned more about Space Warfare from the Shivans than they had ever come up with beforehand....
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#30
There is a kind of symbiosis with the Shivans, but it's more like what the guy at the end of FS1 says... the human ability to adapt to overcome difficulties. Like the shields, or the beam cannons. Or the meson bombs, the TAG system, and the AWACS, which aren't Shivan.

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