Re: Join the Fight

#76
It is no big deal. Sometimes it is good to say what's on your mind, especially since our discussion is civil. I'm sleepy...

Re: Join the Fight

#77
Where the hell did this come from?
It was me.

I will accept all stoning.
Yeah, you wish you were stoned.

Re: Join the Fight

#81
There is lots of healthier food that is cheaper than many unhealthy foods, though there is still a problem with too many healthier foods being more spendy. I can get apples and stuff very cheap and other things much cheaper than McDonalds that charges $1.40 for a small fry. I can get a pound of apples for 99 cents if I'm not picky and get a big bag of potatoes for only around $1.88. Also, if more people diverted more money to foods and less to other things "used it wisely' it would make a big difference. Please no excuses. Even if I lived on my own, if I settled for a smaller apartment and didn't get a house, no pets, was smart with my utilities, which I would do, I could divert more money to food. Also a good thing I don't smoke or have spendy addictions. If I was on my own, I could have a job that pays much less than certain people and be better off than people who make more if I settled for less and was wise with money. Often though when people make more, their level of wastefulness increases and they misuse the money which might counteract the advantage of making more, and so many richer people who have much more also have debt and might struggle from paycheck to paycheck.

Also, you would think that people who were fat were well off and people who were poor would starve. Kind of backwards since the system is backwards making many healthier foods more spendy. But if you look in the right areas and the right products and not too picky about taste, you can get healthy foods for much cheaper, or you can just make other sacrifices so you have more money for certain healthy foods, but I would avoid stuff that is too expensive since a lot of it might be a gimmick that isn't really that healthy, like certain gimmicky organic things that cost more but aren't really much different. I also avoid supplements and pills. I can get everything I need from foods.

I would think that if a person can afford to buy a home, a nice car, or buy cigarettes, they could afford to buy healthy food, but many have backwards priorities.
Last edited by gary on Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Join the Fight

#82
Bag of apples costs at least $5 here in Seoul. Good apples though.

Heatlhy foods put me out of pocket. :(
The Expanse. Watch it!

Re: Join the Fight

#83
Are you sure there are no other options, no cheaper stores, or anything to help you in your area? I would think that the capital of South Korea would have much more to choose from than Oregon City and even Portland. This state lacks a lot of options compared to many other states and countries, no doubt. I shop in Oregon City and the fruit stand in Mulino. I go to the fruit/veggie stand and often get much better deals than at Fred Meyer, and vice versa, so I go to both places to get the cheapest produce of both. As for apples, it isn't a bag I get but I put them in a sack. I think sometimes even here those bags of apples can be much more expensive than just putting them in sacks one-by-one manually. Actually, most apples were priced higher than 99 cents, so I just got the ones that were 99 cents a pound. I don't want to pay $1.50 or more for that particular fruit. Besides supply and demand, the price also depends on the time of year as well as where they came from (transportation and oil costs) and of course how delicate the produce is and how easily it spoils, like with blueberries. I Also like when I can choose how much to put in a sack (buy in bulk), then weigh it, and put less in it or take some out if I worry about it costing more than I want to spend.

Bananas and onions, in my experience, are among the regularly cheapest fruits/veggies, if you are not picky what kind of onion you get. I can tear some bananas off the stock to make them weigh less or get smaller ones. A yellow onion cost me 49 cents per pound. I consider 89 cents for 1 green pepper each to be a good deal, but this week at the fruit stand, they were on sell for 5 for $1. The first time I ever seen that. Also, why waste $1.50 on a red pepper at Fred Meyer when the price of the red pepper at the produce stand is normally 89 cents for higher quality? :nod:

Re: Join the Fight

#85
Yeah, you wish you were stoned.
Actually I was talking about physical punishment, like the thread.

And no, I don't. I find the sensation unpleasant. (Both forms.)
Sometimes the detachment from rational, lucid perception could be handy.

I'd imagine.

I know, but where's the godawful pun in that?
Edit: I didn't expect to find this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 185408.htm
Inevitable consequence. You have billions of people and increasing use of arable land for non-food purposes; fresh or processed, there is always a cost entailed in producing enough to feed the population. Eating less meat would help to a degree, I think (IIRC there's quite a high resource cost to raise and feed livestock), but that would really require a big drop in affluence to lower the demand... worldwide.
There is lots of healthier food that is cheaper than many unhealthy foods, though there is still a problem with too many healthier foods being more spendy. I can get apples and stuff very cheap and other things much cheaper than McDonalds that charges $1.40 for a small fry. I can get a pound of apples for 99 cents if I'm not picky and get a big bag of potatoes for only around $1.88. Also, if more people diverted more money to foods and less to other things "used it wisely' it would make a big difference. Please no excuses. Even if I lived on my own, if I settled for a smaller apartment and didn't get a house, no pets, was smart with my utilities, which I would do, I could divert more money to food. Also a good thing I don't smoke or have spendy addictions. If I was on my own, I could have a job that pays much less than certain people and be better off than people who make more if I settled for less and was wise with money. Often though when people make more, their level of wastefulness increases and they misuse the money which might counteract the advantage of making more, and so many richer people who have much more also have debt and might struggle from paycheck to paycheck.
If, if, if....

You can cite 'no excuses' etc, but I doubt you've ever experienced poverty. If (this is the hypothetical use of 'you' from here on, ok?) you can't afford basic stuff, you prioritise food first. If you only can afford a little, you prioritize the most fattening stuff, because that's how the human brain biases us to behave. Cars, housing are base requirements anyway, so they need to be budgeted for... owning a 'nice car' isn't really a valid point here, as obesity is associated with lower income anyway (which nice cars aren't). Cigarettes - fair enough point, they are a waste of money (most addictions are, funnily enough).

Plus it sounds like your solo life would be pretty funking miserable, if all you do is trade off stuff for eating veg. I mean, maybe I'm not the apple-weighing ubermensch like you, but I like to have a bit spare to spend on the occasional thing which isn't dedicated to the relentless preservation of a burnished clean colon. I'd hazard a guess, even, that most people here would rather have the odd beer down the pub, or see the odd movie, and possibly get the occasional carry out rather than sit on the bare floorboards eating the mutts nuts of a salad.
Also, you would think that people who were fat were well off and people who were poor would starve. Kind of backwards since the system is backwards making many healthier foods more spendy. But if you look in the right areas and the right products and not too picky about taste, you can get healthy foods for much cheaper, or you can just make other sacrifices so you have more money for certain healthy foods, but I would avoid stuff that is too expensive since a lot of it might be a gimmick that isn't really that healthy, like certain gimmicky organic things that cost more but aren't really much different. I also avoid supplements and pills. I can get everything I need from foods.

I would think that if a person can afford to buy a home, a nice car, or buy cigarettes, they could afford to buy healthy food, but many have backwards priorities.
High calorie foods tend to be cheaper (I actually linked to an article explaining this nicely below, so ignore here and skip down if you want), and last longer; you can probably guess the association. Both give them an advantage over healthier foods (i.e. fresh) for a family struggling to make ends meet.

I would also hazard a guess that the endorphin release associated with fatty food is a motivating factor, too; you can't afford a new DVD, but you can 'treat' yourself to a burger (etc). That's just a side-thought, though, as is the increased difficulty of taking and or preparing meals from fresh ingredients in certain careers. And if you have kids, of course, and two parents working - there's a horrible catch-22 in the time taken to prepare decent fresh food.
Are you sure there are no other options, no cheaper stores, or anything to help you in your area?
Apples in tropical asian countries tend to be imported from more temperate zones (like from the temperate parts of China or Japan). Hence the cost.
I would think that the capital of South Korea would have much more to choose from than Oregon City and even Portland. This state lacks a lot of options compared to many other states and countries, no doubt. I shop in Oregon City and the fruit stand in Mulino. I go to the fruit/veggie stand and often get much better deals than at Fred Meyer, and vice versa, so I go to both places to get the cheapest produce of both. As for apples, it isn't a bag I get but I put them in a sack. I think sometimes even here those bags of apples can be much more expensive than just putting them in sacks one-by-one manually. Actually, most apples were priced higher than 99 cents, so I just got the ones that were 99 cents a pound. I don't want to pay $1.50 or more for that particular fruit. Besides supply and demand, the price also depends on the time of year as well as where they came from (transportation and oil costs) and of course how delicate the produce is and how easily it spoils, like with blueberries. I Also like when I can choose how much to put in a sack (buy in bulk), then weigh it, and put less in it or take some out if I worry about it costing more than I want to spend.

Bananas and onions, in my experience, are among the regularly cheapest fruits/veggies, if you are not picky what kind of onion you get. I can tear some bananas off the stock to make them weigh less or get smaller ones. A yellow onion cost me 49 cents per pound. I consider 89 cents for 1 green pepper each to be a good deal, but this week at the fruit stand, they were on sell for 5 for $1. The first time I ever seen that. Also, why waste $1.50 on a red pepper at Fred Meyer when the price of the red pepper at the produce stand is normally 89 cents for higher quality? :nod:
As an aside, Wheeler and Crook counties in Oregon were identified as having the two highest costs of a meal in the whole US (as another aside, healthy food suffers greater inflation than unhealthy food - see http://www.oregonfoodbank.org/News/Stor ... 8108513159).

Re: Join the Fight

#86
I think it is good to eat fat and veggies. But you don't seem to realize that there is much more to worry about than just too much fat and calories in a diet, and there are good and bad fats, and also the source of calories matters. In fact, if you eat too little or don't eat breakfast, your body may go into starvation mode and try to retain fat, at least at first.

There are plenty of foods that aren't fatty that are unhealthy for many other reasons. Also, I don't just eat veggies, not by a long shot. Also, a person can grow their own, like they did back then, if price is an issue and they somehow can afford to live in a 'house' instead of saving by having an 'apartment'. As for alcohol, I can buy a bottle of wine at K-Mart for $3.69. Most is not that cheap though, especially Jack Daniel's and wiskey in general.

And there are plenty of fatty foods that cost a lot. Also many unhealthy foods that cost a lot, even if they are not fatty. Go to a convenient store or look at the price of a small fry at McD's or look at Burgerville's bogus prices (I never go there) and not getting much for your money (at least at Subway you can get more for your money). If a person can afford to regularly go to a convenient store or fast food everyday (which many people can and do and isn't cheap), then they can afford 'instead' to spend much more of that money on healthier food if they were willing to use their money differently.

It is true that healthier foods in many cases (at least in first world countries, it would seem) are more expensive, but it isn't true in all cases.

Also, there are lots of richer people and people who make plenty of money with health problems in USA with crappy diets. Look at the out-of-shape weak politicians + the people who sit on their butt in offices all day who have pop bellies, low energy, other health problems, waste money on 'expensive' unhealthy energy drinks, etc. Sure in some cases you can blame poverty, but there can be many more reasons than just that.

For the record, I put most fruits and even veggies into my refrigerator to preserve them. Some are better out of the frig though. People can even freeze things to last longer. Also, there are fats that I read go rancid.

Also, you can cook sometimes but cook enough to last you a few nights, thus saving you time and not having to cook more often. Also you can use the microwave to cook certain fresh foods. Also, you don't have to cook all foods. Eat them the way they are. Also, I never said 'all' packaged foods were bad (not at all) and it depended on what was in the ingredients list and 'how heavily' processed it was, if you read my previous posts on the other page.

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As for movies, why go to a theater and waste a lot of money when I can find it on the internet or download and delete it for free if I look hard enough?

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As for the overtime career, kids, etc. They chose that (made their bed and now have to sleep in it). Those choices are NOT to be taken lightly at all. When you want more, it cost more + more utilities with more possessions + irreversible situations.

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As for cars, if we had more widespread and higher quality public transit, it would be cheaper and an alternative to wasting money owning, fueling, and maintaining a car with insurance and much more. It would be nice for many more areas to have these other transit options, giving more options to those who either can't drive, don't want to pay for it, or don't want to drive. In 2012, especially in the so-called superpower of the world, I would expect society to be more developed than this with its infrastructure. But in USA, having a car is usually necessary because of our low quality non-widely spread public transportation system while Europe and Japan have a much better, higher quality, widespread transit system that wouldn't require you to have a car in most cases, especially Japan and the buses coming every 5 minutes + high speed rail. That doesn't exist here.

Also an apartmant is much cheaper than a house, if you get the right one, and the utilities will no doubt be less.

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In certain countries and even here, family members may live together and help each other out to reduce the poverty of each individual.

Also, poverty isn't caused 'just' by having inadequate wages and too much tax and inflation, but by how the person uses what they got and how picky one is. Also, the poverty in first world countries is nothing compared to countries in Africa. Also, I doubt someone like you, who can afford to move to other countries and most likely travels regularly, ever experienced poverty, and you are richer than my family and I. My family was quite a bit closer to the poverty line when I was a child.

I'm the kind of person who tries to find ways around something and believes there is usually a better, more efficient, easier, safer, faster, or more thorough way, then improve upon my methods.

I agree though that having only the basics and nothing else in life would make life pointless and miserable, and there are things I buy that I want and don't need in order to survive, but often people take it to a level that goes too far and isn't sustainable (a level I would not take it). At least in the USA, it seems common place for people to want 'way more' than they need instead of just a 'little' or 'moderately' more than they need, which can drive people into poverty or cause lots of debt. We do live in an 'instant gratification' culture though, like Rome was.

I also feel something must be done to make it so healthier food is cheaper on average, and Michelle Obama feels that too. However, I believe even with less money, if one plays it smart or finds a way around it, like many of the examples I gave above, they can still live healthier. I would think people in rural areas could grow small gardens more. My family does. Also, notice that in certain 3rd world countries, like Vietnam, people are in better shape than the average American and market places are far more common, but here it's not. I guess heathier food is cheaper (Yep, it is and it looks so good: http://www.haivenu-vietnam.com/vietnam-culture-food.htm ) there and they use their money more wisely since they do live in a frugal culture.

Re: Join the Fight

#87
I think it is good to eat fat and veggies. But you don't seem to realize that there is much more to worry about than just too much fat and calories in a diet, and there are good and bad fats, and also the source of calories matters. In fact, if you eat too little or don't eat breakfast, your body may go into starvation mode and try to retain fat, at least at first.
Perhaps I simply can't be arsed into going into a complex nutritional analysis?
There are plenty of foods that aren't fatty that are unhealthy for many other reasons. Also, I don't just eat veggies, not by a long shot. Also, a person can grow their own, like they did back then, if price is an issue and they somehow can afford to live in a 'house' instead of saving by having an 'apartment'. As for alcohol, I can buy a bottle of wine at K-Mart for $3.69. Most is not that cheap though, especially Jack Daniel's and wiskey in general.
I would imagine that $3.69 K-Mart wine is essentially hobo juice.

Also, I can't speak of where you are, but here it's a hell of a lot more difficult to afford a house or ground floor apartment, with adequate garden space, than a straightforward flat. For those within a high density city - even more so. We're talking the difference of several hundred pounds plus in mortgage terms, plus increased utility costs, plus likely increased transport (to work) costs, plus higher council tax costs (a tax based on home value). And that's if you can get that mortgage in the first place, which is difficult in the current climate.

But I don't think you've lived on your own, at least from the tense used in your posts, so it's understandable that you're not aware of the precise issues.
And there are plenty of fatty foods that cost a lot. Also many unhealthy foods that cost a lot, even if they are not fatty. Go to a convenient store or look at the price of a small fry at McD's or look at Burgerville's bogus prices (I never go there) and not getting much for your money (at least at Subway you can get more for your money). If a person can afford to regularly go to a convenient store or fast food everyday (which many people can and do and isn't cheap), then they can afford 'instead' to spend much more of that money on healthier food if they were willing to use their money differently.

It is true that healthier foods in many cases (at least in first world countries, it would seem) are more expensive, but it isn't true in all cases.
On a per calorie basis, it's a general rule. I wound guess that it's due to the greater shelf life, reducing the transportation and storage costs.
Also, there are lots of richer people and people who make plenty of money with health problems in USA with crappy diets. Look at the out-of-shape weak politicians + the people who sit on their butt in offices all day who have pop bellies, low energy, other health problems, waste money on 'expensive' unhealthy energy drinks, etc. Sure in some cases you can blame poverty, but there can be many more reasons than just that.
Poverty is a key correlant, though.

Otherwise, the issue is the sedentary lifestyle associated with office work. Catch 22; you work a manual job, then time, cost and convenience biases towards high calorie fast food. You work a well-paid office job, then your lifestyle ends up spending a lot of time doing very little.

I'm not disagreeing with you and stating that obesity is in some way mandatory for people, of that change is impossible; what I am saying (or trying to) is that the issue of how obesity arises and becomes prevelant is a lot more complex and difficult to tackle than you assume. I think your view is overly simplistic and reductivist; you assume that the choices you make are in some form a universal ideal that would suit others.
For the record, I put most fruits and even veggies into my refrigerator to preserve them. Some are better out of the frig though. People can even freeze things to last longer. Also, there are fats that I read go rancid.

Also, you can cook sometimes but cook enough to last you a few nights, thus saving you time and not having to cook more often. Also you can use the microwave to cook certain fresh foods. Also, you don't have to cook all foods. Eat them the way they are. Also, I never said 'all' packaged foods were bad (not at all) and it depended on what was in the ingredients list and 'how heavily' processed it was, if you read my previous posts on the other page.
Er, you may not realise, but I do actually cook fresh meals every day along with Mrs Aldo. That doesn't change the reality, of course, that our food budget ends up being relatively high compared to other people, and that we take at least an hour to actually move from starting dinner to finishing cleaning up. For some people, neither the time nor cost are practical.
As for movies, why go to a theater and waste a lot of money when I can find it on the internet or download and delete it for free if I look hard enough?


As for the overtime career, kids, etc. They chose that (made their bed and now have to sleep in it). Those choices are NOT to be taken lightly at all. When you want more, it cost more + more utilities with more possessions + irreversible situations.
Er... gary, not all people can or want to live a solitary, shuttered existence. Don't treat things like having kids - or even just going out - as negative points in life, or you'll risk finding yourself a deeply depressed position in a few decades time.
As for cars, if we had more widespread and higher quality public transit, it would be cheaper and an alternative to wasting money owning, fueling, and maintaining a car with insurance and much more. It would be nice for many more areas to have these other transit options, giving more options to those who either can't drive, don't want to pay for it, or don't want to drive. In 2012, especially in the so-called superpower of the world, I would expect society to be more developed than this with its infrastructure. But in USA, having a car is usually necessary because of our low quality non-widely spread public transportation system while Europe and Japan have a much better, higher quality, widespread transit system that wouldn't require you to have a car in most cases, especially Japan and the buses coming every 5 minutes + high speed rail. That doesn't exist here.
Not all of europe.... (as an aside, the NY subway system is more convenient than both the Paris Metro and London Underground, IMO).

Also, Japan and Europe are quite a bit more geographically concentrated than the USA; greater population density eases the task of building public transport systems. Regardless, in 2002 Japan had more cars per person than the USA.
Also an apartmant is much cheaper than a house, if you get the right one, and the utilities will no doubt be less.
Apartments have drawbacks. For those of us who try and live on the basis of something other than how much things cost, especially so.
In certain countries and even here, family members may live together and help each other out to reduce the poverty of each individual.
Families do. But if you only have one member working, and only have limited space... it doesn't help that much. Also, people tend to have a tendency to want to be individuals at some point in their life - worth noting that.
Also, poverty isn't caused 'just' by having inadequate wages and too much tax and inflation, but by how the person uses what they got and how picky one is. Also, the poverty in first world countries is nothing compared to countries in Africa. Also, I doubt someone like you, who can afford to move to other countries and most likely travels regularly, ever experienced poverty, and you are richer than my family and I. My family was quite a bit closer to the poverty line when I was a child.
Believe it or not, I budget accordingly. And I got a very good mortgage.

But I'm not claiming experience of poverty (my parents and extended family perhaps can... I know people who live 5 to a tiny apartment, through no fault of their own). My point is that you don't seem to have any first hand experience of even budgeting for living alone, let alone struggling to do so. Maybe I'm wrong, in which case I apologise; but if not, you can't preach to people how they should live their lives.
I'm the kind of person who tries to find ways around something and believes there is usually a better, more efficient, easier, safer, faster, or more thorough way, then improve upon my methods.
The problem is, IMO, that you believe your way is always the better one. Understandable human tendency, I guess, but it tends to make you couch opinions in very simplistic terms.
I agree though that having only the basics and nothing else in life would make life pointless and miserable, and there are things I buy that I want and don't need in order to survive, but often people take it to a level that goes too far and isn't sustainable (a level I would not take it). At least in the USA, it seems common place for people to want 'way more' than they need instead of just a 'little' or 'moderately' more than they need, which can drive people into poverty or cause lots of debt. We do live in an 'instant gratification' culture though, like Rome was.
0

I didn't know you were Roman! Is that Holy Roman or Byzantine? How's ole Biggus doing?
I also feel something must be done to make it so healthier food is cheaper on average, and Michelle Obama feels that too. However, I believe even with less money, if one plays it smart or finds a way around it, like many of the examples I gave above, they can still live healthier. I would think people in rural areas could grow small gardens more. My family does. Also, notice that in certain 3rd world countries, like Vietnam, people are in better shape than the average American and market places are far more common, but here it's not. I guess heathier food is cheaper (Yep, it is and it looks so good: http://www.haivenu-vietnam.com/vietnam-culture-food.htm ) there and they use their money more wisely since they do live in a frugal culture.
gary, do you really thing a website advertising Vietnamese holidays would give a negative image of the food there? Would it show, for example, that the reason people tend to be shorted and lighter is through a lack of food.

Yes, the provision of food and vegetables is generally better and cheaper (well - sometimes; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15866879) ; but people have much lower income, and exist much closer to the starvation/poverty line. That's not done through choice; there's a reason why we have first, second and third world country definitions. But, of course, the tourism websites won't show the high rise council housing where multiple families share a double bedroom apartment. Public healthcare and utilities tend to be worse also.

Re: Join the Fight

#88
Yes, tourism cannot be completely trusted since it is about attractiveness and doesn't tell the whole story. Also, you are right, it is not uncommon for people in Vietnam to share bedrooms, and the rural areas are lower quality and not as well developed as in 1st world countries, and there are far more 'have nots' vs 'haves' per capita in 3rd world countries, but certain 3rd world countries are far better in many ways than others 3rd world countries (Vietnam is far better than say North Korea, most parts of Africa, and maybe all parts of the middle east) and some of these counrties maybe shouldn't be called 3rd world anymore since they have developed a lot compared to even 2 decades ago(4th world would be tribal areas).

I was just referring to healthier foods being cheaper and wider spread in some of those countries compared to here, but the Japanese diet is better than here and it is a 1st world country. I don't know if healthier food is more expensive than unhealthy food in Japan like it is here. One of you no doubt knows. Anyways, is overpopulation causing the food prices to go so high in the last few years? Something is happening that is causing things to get worse and it is spreading. We really could use a resourced based economy soon, if possible.

My way is not always best, and at certain things, may not be best that much, hence I'm open minded to improving upon my methods. I can always improve and learn more, I admit, and I value a learning experience, advice, and more information. A lot of what I say is me going by common sense and what I see around me and knowing things that can be done, but I may be wrong about certain things.

Re: Join the Fight

#89
Yes, tourism cannot be completely trusted since it is about attractiveness and doesn't tell the whole story. Also, you are right, it is not uncommon for people in Vietnam to share bedrooms, and the rural areas are lower quality and not as well developed as in 1st world countries, and there are far more 'have nots' vs 'haves' per capita in 3rd world countries, but certain 3rd world countries are far better in many ways than others 3rd world countries (Vietnam is far better than say North Korea, most parts of Africa, and maybe all parts of the middle east) and some of these counrties maybe shouldn't be called 3rd world anymore since they have developed a lot compared to even 2 decades ago(4th world would be tribal areas).
In a word - No. Vietnam has certainly advanced in recent times - but it's still way down on the Quality of Life and Human Development indexes, compared to first world economies.

Just...well, just visit it and see. I've not been to Vietnam, but I have been to the relatively affluent areas (and not the tourist zones) of a higher ranked, 2nd world asian country. And, as nice as certain aspects of the lifestyle are, it is still quantifiably worse for most of the population.
I was just referring to healthier foods being cheaper and wider spread in some of those countries compared to here, but the Japanese diet is better than here and it is a 1st world country. I don't know if healthier food is more expensive than unhealthy food in Japan like it is here. One of you no doubt knows. Anyways, is overpopulation causing the food prices to go so high in the last few years? Something is happening that is causing things to get worse and it is spreading. We really could use a resourced based economy soon, if possible.
Not just overpopulation, although it may be a factor... that said, IIRC population growth tends to be much higher in 3rd than 1st world countries - a lot of europe has declining populations, for example.

You have to look at climate change, for one; both India and China are facing up to water shortages affecting crop growth, for example (prompting the purchase of large acreages of arable African land). Also, in certain countries, the conversion of crop land to biofuel growth (which isn't actually environmentally friendly either). Another significant factor is rising fuel costs, especially for exotic crops. Finally, overall economic decline; inflation is increasing ahead of wages, meaning that peoples incomes are reduced in real terms.
My way is not always best, and at certain things, may not be best that much, hence I'm open minded to improving upon my methods. I can always improve and learn more, I admit, and I value a learning experience, advice, and more information. A lot of what I say is me going by common sense and what I see around me and knowing things that can be done, but I may be wrong about certain things.
I've noticed a lot of your common sense seems to be found in rather banal statements.

But that's irrelevant. What you have to address, is that your particular lifestyle is not necessarily one that the majority aspire or wish to.

In this particular context, there is nothing wrong with aspiring to owning a nice car, a nice house, and populating the latter with a few sprogs to run around. I don't think you can justify painting it as a negative choice, which is what 'made their bed and now have to sleep in it' entails.

Moreso, you might be able to have a good healthy diet by living in a small apartment and minimizing social/entertainment expenses - that doesn't mean it's a positive or desirable approach for anyone else; so don't present it as some easy, or even plausible, approach to the issue of affording health food.

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